Experienced Older Women

October 31, 2012 § 72 Comments

My Times column didn’t come out on Monday, hence silence yesterday.  More apologies.

I was talking to a friend yesterday about Young Twinkle and she made me laugh because we were speculating as to what it is a young man might find attractive about the older woman.  The great cliche is that it is her experience but, in our wisdom, my friend  and I thought “experience” might be a misnomer for desperation and gratitude!  I think she has a point.  I question my own “experience”.  OK, so it has been extensive (in the past, at least, before I got married) but I don’t think experience necessarily translates as expertise.  Every day I read in the papers that kids as young as 11 are regularly watching hardcore porn (the latest report says many of them need to do so in order to get to sleep:WTF?).  So young men are expecting porn sex and young women are being expected to have the bodies and parts and “skills” of porn stars and prostitutes and are working to perfect their “skills” by watching more porn…  So where does that leave the “experienced” older woman who has never watched a porn movie in her life?  I lie: I was once taken on a date as a teenager by a respectable and handsome young man to see La Bete (there is meant to be a little triangular hat on the first “e” but my keyboard doesn’t run to the niceties of French accents, or rather, I haven’t a fucking clue where to find them).  It was eye-opening to say the least.

I tell my teenager that sex is NOT a porn movie, and nor should it be, and all power to Cindy Gallop who is trying to spread the word that “ordinary” sex between “ordinary” people is where it’s at.  Still, I do wonder how can I compete with a girl in her twenties or thirties brought up on a diet of contemporary porn (as opposed to the tin-pot seventies version of same), and experienced not only beyond her years but also beyond any erstwhile notions of “experience”?  It is an alarming thought.

Back to the drawing-board, perhaps, to the men at the other end of the spectrum who might regard me as young and charmingly inexperienced.

But then we’re looking at zimmer frames and circa 86 and I am not entirely convinced I can go there, at least not quite yet.

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§ 72 Responses to Experienced Older Women

  • Jill says:

    Oh good, P, I am happy to see your return to my/our screen/s, so please disregard my enquiry posted earlier as a comment under last week’s WOA article.

    This matter of “updating” one’s attitude to current sexual mores and practices is an intriguing conundrum for the older plankton such as I, but not so much, I would have thought, for those ten years or more younger like your good self. It is also not exactly a problem which one can discuss with one’s safely married female contemporaries, or so I feel, so I look forward to hearing what other contributors to your blog have to say on this subject…… I

    • Jill says:

      P.S. Am slightly confused as to whether the “86” refers to the age of the zimmer frame user or to the year 1986……

    • SteveH says:

      What update on young Twinkle P? Has the Aunt’s advice been heeded or shall we rename you Mrs Robinson ? ;)

    • Elle says:

      Plankton, I’m not sure if I would be envious of the young girls brought up on a diet of porn. Some of them are willing to abase themselves in ways we would have thought unthinkable at their age. I don’t know if you have heard of a practice called “snowballing” but a few years ago it was all the rage at an upper middle class teenage disco in Dublin. This is mild compared to what girls are willing to do now. Teenage girls may appear to be sophisticated and assertive, but I think that they are more insecure than we were and not as willing to stand up for themselves and say no to something they don’t want to do.

      Another point could be that they’re doing all this because they don’t want to end up as plankton, but I think there’s more to it than that.

      Jilly Cooper and Jackie Collins were considered racy when I was at boarding school – we’d read out the “dirty bits” by torchlight after ights out. What would today’s teens think of that?

  • Ha! The younger generation can watch as many porn movies as they want but actually liking sex and wanting your partner, and not being afraid to show it, is the biggest turn on any man can have (or so I have been informed …) ;)

    • zoe says:

      Spot on, Ruth. This is the essential thing. A grown woman is fully in tune with her own desires, and it’s the erotic heartbeat of the older-woman-younger-man relationship. It’s the one thing that porn – and the young woman who seeks to copy it – doesn’t have. Authenticity.

    • Singleysingleton says:

      Perfectly put. You don’t need “A few new stunts between the sheets”, the actual enjoyment, contributing and a smile far exceeds any thing you’ve seen in “Debbie does Dagenham”.

  • MissBates says:

    Well, there’s the old rule of thumb that men should aim for women one-half their age, plus seven years. As I am 51, that means that I should be considering any 88-year-olds that cross my path. (88/2 = 44 + 7 = 51.) I say this with tongue planted firmly in cheek, and yet it is quite true that the only men who evince ANY interest in me when I’m out and about on the social round are the men fast approaching 80. They are quite disturbingly flirtatious, whereas men in my own age range wouldn’t notice me if I walked nude down the middle of Madison Avenue.

    • fi says:

      That ‘rule’ was obviously written by a (I bet unsuccessful) man and really is nonsense. It doesn’t even make sense! Is that half a man’s age plus 7 when you meet him for the first time as the following year, if you stayed together, when he’s 89 you’d already be too old at 52? :)

      • MissBates says:

        As it’s a JOKE, I think we cannot subject it to too much scrutiny. : ) Having said that, I think it’s in the spirit of the “rule” that by 52 I would indeed already be slightly too old for him at 89. LOL!

        A very dear friend of mine, a slim, elegant, sophisticated, still-beautiful woman at 68, widowed a few years back, had long had her eye on a gentleman of her acquaintance, still a man-about-town at age 82, divorced many years ago. She debated whether he was “too old” for her, until he upped and married a 40-year-old last month. (Showing that the “rule” isn’t foolproof; theoretically he would only have “rated” a 48-year-old.)

  • Highlander says:

    As a man who in his 20’s went out with a number of older women, and often compared experiences with like minded friends, I can say the main reason was we went out with them was we knew there was going to be less head games and an almost guarantee of sex pretty quickly. We also knew it was most likely to be short termed and without much drama after the fact. Other than that there was no great mystery to it, it was not a matter of the “allure of sophistication or experience of a mature women” so often bandied about on women’s forums, it was just quick and easy sex.

    • fi says:

      Really most relationships end before someone dies so to go in to one expecting it to last that long, or even to look for one to last that long is silly. What’s important is how rewarding it is for both parties. How long it lasts for is in the lap of the gods and just because it ends doesn’t negate the experiences of the people involved. I think though that at some point in almost all relationships people decide they want something else than what is on offer from the other person. But the length of time it lasts is not a measure of success (to me anyway), it’s how rewarding it was while it lasted.

  • EmGee says:

    Both Cindy Gallop’s bringing the modern notion of what young people think sex should be from what they see online (and ‘reality’ shows for that matter) out into the open, and Highlander’s post are depressing indeed. Highlander’s post of course, is just one man’s experience, so there is that.

    Cindy’s is more serious imo, because more and more children are being raised by the media, and too many adults allow themselves to be fed all sorts of things indiscriminately, as well.

    It not only makes us hyper-overeactive to sexual themes, but also politics, religion, wealth, etc, believing what is presented to us without much thought to the source.

    The bottom line, is that when the vast majority believes in ludicrous claims without question, as it has in American politics for example, it is hard to swim against that tide, or take a moderate stance.

    • fi says:

      EmGee don’t forget though that Highlander is the middle aged bloke whose wife left him and he comes on here frequently to say nobody wants middle aged women. Consider the context of his comments before you decide what weight to give them.

      • Highlander says:

        Before you cast stones my way you should know my X left me with both children and no forwarding address for over a month. She has never spent more than an hour a week with either of our children in the last 14 months. I think that alone should indicate that I’m hardly the one with issues in this situation.

        I’ve never said that nobody wants middle aged women, only that at this stage of life men of the same age tend to be looking for younger women than themselves. I’m not making this up out of some vindictive or bitterness toward women, this is backed up by research by the larger Online dating sites such as OKCupid and others. Younger men will go after older women as I’ve indicated, but it’s seldom a long term arrangement and often ends badly when it is.

      • fi says:

        I’m not casting stones, or criticising your parenting, and for all I know your wife was horrible, I’m just questioning your impartiality, in the context of previous statements you’ve made, when you say young men want older women for ‘just quick and easy sex’. I’m not even saying you’re wrong.

  • Cindy Gallop says:

    Several years ago I gave a talk at TEDUniversity at TED Long Beach, on ‘The Toyboy Manifesto: Why Older Woman + Younger Man Is The Relationship Model Of The Future’.

    I opened it with ‘Let me get one thing out of the way right upfront – yes, the sex is fantastic. When you bring together someone at his sexual peak – lots of stamina, very short recovery periods – with someone at her sexual peak – lots of confidence and experience, knows what she likes – then that’s an explosively successful combination. But that is only one dimension out of many that are why I personally find this relationship model so rewarding and fulfiling.’

    I then went on to explain them all (to a packed house :)) I won’t bore you with the details here, but in response to your post specifically: younger men love older women’s confidence. I remember myself at 20-something – rampantly insecure about everything to do with myself (as we women are brought up to be from the moment we’re born – insecure about how we look, how we dress, how we talk, nice girls do this nice girls don’t do that – we spend the rest of our lives coming back from that, and some of us never do). A confident older woman knows she looks hot shit with her clothes off no matter what lumps and bumps, doesn’t give a damn, and because she’s not insecure about herself can afford to praise and appreciate her partner (when you’re obsessed with how you’re coming across, you usually forget to compliment and appreciate your partner..)

    Younger men also appreciate life and career experience that can help provide useful perspectives and advice on their own paths in life.

    You might enjoy this related interview with me on ‘Women Over 50 Have Sex Too’ :

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jincey-lumpkin/women-sex-over-50_b_1343749.html

    • Basil Meatballs says:

      Really?

      Next thing you’ll be telling me I ought to try it with my friend’s Grandma.

    • The Plankton says:

      Thanks so much for this, Cindy. Fascinating stuff. Pxx

    • Elle says:

      Cindy’s link is interesting but I find that as I’m getting older I’m losing my confidence. I was probably at my most confident in my late 30s but since then it’s declined, taking a nosedive when I hit 40. I find that if men think I’m in my 30s they’re more attracted to me, but if I tell them that I’m over 40 their interest wanes. That applies to men in their 50s as well as men in their 40s. I suppose I should count my blessings and be grateful that people think I’m still in my 30s, but knowing I’m over 40 is a real confidence killer. Maybe the attitude towards women over 40 in Ireland isn’t the same as in New York. “Make Love Not Porn” is all very well if you can find a partner but in Ireland most single women in and around my age are celibate and the chances of finding a partner are slim. Men in this country definitely apply the “half their age plus seven” rule once they hit 40. Even if we do find partners the endemic abuse of alcohol in this country renders a disproportionate amount of men impotent from a relatively young age. The dire straits of economy has lots of people on antidepressants which doesn’t help matters either. Did anybody bring this up at Cindy’s talk in Dublin?

      The best relationships I’ve had have been with foreign men but I’ve recently moved to a a rural area so no chances of meeting any nice foreigners there. There are lots of single men around but because I’m not in my 20s I’m not on their radar. Women are invisible after 30 here.

      • june says:

        Im wondering why Elle as an older single woman you moved to a rural area, as someone who grew up and lived in a village for years i have to say in spite of me not finding a man in the city for an older women it is by far a better place to be, .It may not be easier to find a partner but you do feel more part of life, people accept you more, you get included in things even if without a partner and there is more going on.

        If i was still living in my old village as a single retired person i know my life would be so much worse, i would say a city scores every time over rural areas when a mature single,.

      • Elle says:

        True June, but I couldn’t afford a house or an apartment in the city. Dublin property prices are still beyond the average single person. That’s why I moved to the rural area where I grew up. Ironically if I had been able to buy with a partner I could have stayed in the city!

  • Barry says:

    Back in business P ….thank you . We are on a little break over the Border in Spain. The hotel is FULL , well lots of , young men with older Lovers and Wives , some with a child from a previous time plus a new, younger, addition.
    The Women are AB-Fab , so full of confidence and sexy, the young men like peacocks ….it is most warming and comforting to see people enjoying relationships openly.
    Also a lot of “My” units, older man with much younger woman ….and it works ! …On y vas P …your future awaits you.

  • Basil Meatballs says:

    Well, here are some random thoughts from a bloke. I said random not randy. If I were a gentleman I would not write these things down. I am not.

    When I was twelve or thirteen I found in an unlit disused air raid shelter, part of my Father’s business premises, some of those magazines. Fascinating. Never seen a woman undressed before. These were not porn, just pictures. At 15/16 I was walking with a friend and his parents when we all looked down from the edge of a steep slope to see a couple at it in the grass below. We all looked including the mother.

    Never told at school about foreplay. Don’t think my Mother knew what sex was. I told her years later that the wife was not keen on sex (I was) and the reply was “so what?”

    My boy appears to have a very happy marriage. I checked his computer when he was (approximately) 17 and found he had been viewing very explicit pictures when he was supposed to be revising. So explicit I found them disgusting. They were of under-age girls and in my home.

    In real life a man gets enjoyment from a nice bust expertly flaunted or legs revealed by a short skirt. So in some ways what does it matter if it is shown on the page or in the flesh? Most of us men are titillated.

    It takes all types. Looking back I wish I had known a little more a bit earlier about what turns a woman on. Perhaps my marriage would have survived if I had turned her on.

    What do I find sexy? In a woman?

    Talking sexy only, not other qualities. Now if asked, top of the list is the woman who enjoys making love to me. Not a casual screw. Someone you have a relationship with.

    The body. Difficult. Some girls just feel sexy. It is indefinable. Some know that if you get into bed and she’s wearing woolly tights you might as well go to sleep but nothing but stockings… Just as I wish I had been a faster learner some women are just not sexy. Clueless.

    Men have different preferences. So do women. One divorced friend (48) says the best lover she had had was 61.

    Run out of things to say except you women do have some funny ideas about men.

    • jil3 says:

      What does the average man think about surgical breast enhancement in the older woman,say age 50 plus,then. hmmm…?

      • Basil Meatballs says:

        Nothing. Perhaps you are asking the wrong person.

        Nothing is a shallow answer, isn’t it?

        A breast may have been re-constructed. The owner might have a complex about size or shape.

        From this male standpoint, where is the sex appeal in viewing a couple of rigid implants (which are obviously implants when you take her kit off) and which friends snigger about?

        What’s the difference in principle between false knockers and a codpiece? They both look daft.

        Descending in tone, it’s nice to look up in bed and see something moving naturally but not to feel on edge because you might be accidentally poked in the eye by something solid.

        This average man would vote for natural unless there was a good reason. Small is not a good reason.

  • june says:

    O dear P well god knows who i should go for, 86 is slightly too old for me, let alone you. Im with the 68 year old lady,. 83 would also be a tad too old. He must be rich, no women of 40 would want a 83 old retired dustman, or am i just too cynical.

    Did you all see the pics of Ronnie Wood today with his 34 year old bride to be and did it make you feel slightly sick Hes my age, and i am much less of a wrinkled prune than him, id look bloody better with a 34 year old male than he does with her, but i wouldnt go there, 50ish is fine, but think there is little chance of even that.

    I am sure we will get all the men on here, assuring us it isnt true and men dont all prefer younger women, sadly in my neck of woods not true.

    But P i am pursuing the Pilates, very disappointng crowd of woman at my group though, sociable they are not, i walked in on my third week at group smiled, said Hi all, silence,not a smile, I keep wishing my friends back hadnt gone so she could have come to, as its getting harder to motivate myself to go but i will. Just glad i didnt join to make friends though. The dog sitting is much more successful, a little male who loves me! havent started the walking yet, as hes not trained enough, but will keep you posted if i meet anyone once i start.

  • James B says:

    Now I well into my late forties, I am pleased to say that I am in a sort of physical heaven where I find women of almost any age attractive. Not all women, but increasingly loads, perhaps most. It’s a wonderful thing.

    I can be initially attracted by eyes, skin, hair, voice or a smile, the curve of the body – anything really. Men are of course, pathetically visual. The key is that women today can now take care of themselves physically and that there is no excuse for any of us (men included) to be ugly and fat any more. The gym, skin products, fake tan, hair thickeners, contact lenses (not that I mind glasses), a good diet, fake eyelashes, lipstick, good dress sense – WOW! In fact I prefer women over 40, personally.

    Amongst my female friends I have seen a number of transformations of the past couple of years. It’s a wonderful thing to behold. The point is, that a well kept 50 year old woman nowadays looks like a 30 year-old from my childhood and is perhaps, due to all the discussed points relating to confidence, liberation and experience – maybe sexier!

    So, once the initial physical attraction is over, what of the younger man older woman debate? Clearly younger men will be attracted to a well -kept, fit, sexy, confident older woman these days. For many men one of the major attractions of such a relationship is that many females (most?) over 40 may not want children from that relationship. The relationship may then be about the couple themselves, not primarily about achieving life goals or building a family with the high-pressure life-long implications of permanent commitment. An older woman, in short, knows how to live well in the moment, which appeals to men.

    Biologically too, women live longer than men of course. But an important point here is sex drive. Males tend (a generalisation here) to have a higher sex drive in their 50’s than many of the women I know. Not all men of course. Of course there are many highly sexed women in their 50’s too. But in general men, powered by Viagra are both more willing, able and driven to seek sexual relations. The women, 40+ though, that not only clearly look sexy but have a sex drive (these things often go together) are inundated by willing partners of all ages. The point is that men respond initially to the “sexiness” of an older woman. Beautiful women aside, all women can, if they want, attract younger men if they take care of themselves and are motivated to do so and broadcast the right signals. The motivation is key here.

    The other aspect is that the media constantly shows men that they should be seeking a bigger apartment, a faster car and a fit, long haired female 22 year old gym addict with flawless skin, snow white teeth and an ass the size of a strawberry. My advice is for men to keep away from images of 20 year olds and more importantly, mix with older women. They are more interesting, sexier in real life and a realistic and more rewarding option all round.

    With that in mind and as a counterpoint to the pornography debate, while it is true that men now have an unrealistic and almost de-humanised view of mechanical sex from watching too much porn, at least the growth of the “MILF” genre has re-established the older woman as a visually desirable object in the younger male mind. Men need leading after all….

    • zoe says:

      James B, you are a wonderful contributor to this blog.

      I’m interested in the 30 year-old woman from your childhood. A clear memory for me as a very young woman was watching Terry Wogan interview Victoria Principal and treating her as though she were a freak of nature because she “didn’t look 33″. It was offered as an extravagant compliment; an act of flattery. To be 30 in 1983 was to be over the hill and out of the game.

      It seems so alien now. In a world when the biggest pop stars and sex icons are regularly and naturally in their 30s, and the ten most beautiful women lists have as many women in their 30s and 40s as in their 20s http://www.toptenz.net/top-10-international-beauties-2.php . And unthinkable now to imagine a chat show host treating Beyonce or Scarlett Johanson or Nicole Sherzinger as freaks of nature for looking good at 30.

      This is not just a matter of women looking better. It’s about what we allow ourselves to think; where we draw the lines of the categories of what can be considered desirable and attractive. For all that I enjoy this blog, I remain ambivalent about its premise. For the very concept “Plankton” plays in the opposite direction; effectively broadcasting an argument for the restriction of the category.of the sexually desirable woman.

      This is why I salute Cindy Gallop when she says “Through the way I live my life, I would like to help redefine what society thinks an older woman should look like, dress like, work like, talk like, be like, and fuck like.”

      Now my last relationship is over, I’m back online, dipping my toes back in the water. I always ask the younger men why they are interested in older women. “Curiosity with all the fuss these days with older woman, I guess”, said one I was chatting to the other night. I like this – it’s like witnessing an incremental cultural shift. Not that I’ll be meeting him for a date: personally I like a man’s attraction to older women to be more deeply felt and more broadly rooted. (And thankfully, pace Highlander, that’s not so hard to find).

      Not that it has to be a younger man. I just tend to find that I fancy them more. But if I’m very lucky, I might indeed meet a version of the clever and thoughtful James B. Although preferably an unmarried one :-)

      • Jill says:

        I find myself echoing each and every one of those sentiments, Zoe.

      • june says:

        Zoe which sites are you on where men want to meet older women. , i know im probably older than you but most of the ones i go on even men of 60 wont go any older than 55. I have even been asked is it a current pic of me as i look younger than my age. i have to say i have been contacted by youngert men many ,miles away so it seems maybe its just men in my area who have this agesist idea about women.

        Im with Cindy Gallop on the wanting to redefine how older women are seen,i do but its damm hard when apart from a few female friends the rest of the world still seems to think of you as past it and that you have to accept the fact if you dont want to be on your own you have to accept some decrepid old man or be alone for rest of your life.

      • zoe says:

        Hey June, I use the toyboy and cougar sites. (The ordinary sites are random and less reliable – most people on those sites use conventional age parameters.) They’re easily found – and you have been given the names of these before! I recall you had a look and said everyone was in London (and that they weirded you out – or words to that effect ). I know you’re a bit older than me June, but it’s interesting that so many of the guys there put their upper age limit at 65. The reality is though – and I know from what you’ve said before that you won’t like this bit – most of the men are in their 20s, with a good number in their 30s, but there are only a handful of 40+ year olds. If I’m honest, I’m not sure you’ll find what you’re looking for on there (although you might find an adventure…)

  • rosie says:

    “Did you all see the pics of Ronnie Wood today with his 34 year old bride to be and did it make you feel slightly sick”

    Yes. He looks like a fossilised pterodactyl but where there’s a wallet there’s a way…

    • malcolm says:

      Awww, don’t be so hard on Ronnie Wood. Sometimes it’s not that easy being an older fellow with a younger lady, especially when people say things like seeing the two of them together makes them sick and make other judgemental statements to that effect.

      Just last week I took my girlfriend to dinner in a rather upscale place. We live in a smaller community where people generally know one another. I suppose our age difference must have upset some of the other patrons who might not like to see a 46 year old man with a 23 year old lady. I could feel the coldness of their stares and the faint mumblings of “paedophile”, child molester, and cradle-robber. It was a little upsetting, but I was determined not to let it ruin our tenth anniversary dinner.

    • june says:

      My sentiments exactly Rosie, hes my age and i dont look like a fossilised pterodacty. im in much better shape, but i wouldnt want a 34 year old man, and im sure they wouldnt want me . 54 yes but they want 44 year olds or even younger.

      As you say the wallet helps but i read somewhere his very attractive ex Jo finds its hard to meet anyone and shes obviously rich. Even rich older women find it harder than rich older men, still ,mans world.

  • py says:

    I suppose the debate should really about the quality rather than the quantity of experience a party has accumulated in a lifetime of lovers and fornication. Has it been a lot of diappointing sex with many or only a few partners or has it been a veritable cornucopia of copulation ?

    Most likely, somewhere in the middle.

    Having arrived in London from the sticks as a naive 21 yr old ( who believed they knew it all), I was fortunate enough to meet someone 10yrs my senior who did her very best over the coming years of off and on to complete my education. She eventually married (having turned 50, I might add ) but we still meet for lunch when she is over from the States.

    I am sure that Cindy, as she continues to sip from the fountain of youth, recognises her responsibilities to those enticed into her lair. These are young men who (as with Cindy ) are seeking a transient relationship . It may well continue platonically into the future (as has mine, for which I am very grateful) but they are people who will go on to marry, sire children, possibly divorce . They cannot remain the plaything of a seductive and sensual but more senior citizen – and the same goes for men boasting arm candy.

    What of porn ? Like Ms P I also had to have ‘the chat’ with the mortified teenage son caught downloading it onto my work laptop. “It’s not really like that ! ” or ” That giant cock is the only thing that bloke has got going for him in his life. ” ” You have to learn to respect and cherish a girl ….. ”

    In the meantime, the girls have been watching and studying technique more than the boys – they are so much more studious at that age, I blame the GCSE unit assessment structure. “Sugar and spice ….” , my a..e ! They need no encouragment to get to grips with a boy and by all accounts see oral sex as bordering on an Olympic event . From a male perspective I could be flippant and say “Happy days!” but as a father ot two boys, it’s scary stuff .

    Isn’t that a sad indictment of our lives resulting from the intrusion of IT porn into our childrens upbringing, particularly post the 20th Century push for female equality ?

    I’m not sure where that leaves society or, more importantly, Ms P but do men only fancy much younger women ? NO. Would they prefer quality over quantity ? If they’re being honest and haven’t led a sheltered existence, YES . Is experience a thing to be nurtured and valued ? Of course . Is this, in the long term, going to be better if it is gained with a significant other half in a shared and loving way? I would like to hope so.

    I’m heading off into the night .

  • EmGee says:

    “In the meantime, the girls have been watching and studying technique more than the boys – they are so much more studious at that age, I blame the GCSE unit assessment structure. “Sugar and spice ….” , my a..e ! They need no encouragment to get to grips with a boy and by all accounts see oral sex as bordering on an Olympic event . ”

    I see it as just another form of female subjugation. Girls try to learn about sex from online porn just as boys do, but because of the misogynistic nature of what’s readily available to them*, made by men and for men, once again the woman’s role is denigrated only to pleasing a man. Her own pleasure is completely ignored, or at best, shown as a pathway to ‘turn her on’ and make her want to please him more willingly.

    *Unfortunately, Cindy’s videos, and other videos made for a female audience, or regular couples’ pov, are all behind pay walls, while the worst of the hardcore stuff is freely available. I laud Cindy’s intent, but I even tried to sign up on her website for the opportunity see what her videos are about and never got a response back. With all the publicity it has gotten, and with only 15,000 registered users, I suspect it is a very select club. More’s the pity.

    To proclaim that you want to change the status quo by making sex videos available that show more loving and intimate scenes between couples, but only making them available to a select few that you pick and choose, doesn’t sound quite right to me either. Makes the whole gesture useless, in fact.

  • Ross says:

    Miss P, I recall that you’re a Mac user. Try: “alt” and “i” together, followed by “e”. Like this: ê. Or this: La Bête. Does that work for you?

  • june says:

    O dear Elle,youve done opposite to me then, you moved back to your home area, from the city i left mine and moved to city. I had to settle for a one bedroomed flat to move to city, but felt it was a better move for me and in spite of lack of a male in my life,still think best move, In my old home village feel my life would have been totally over. I would have thought with Irish financial crisis properties in Dublin would have been cheaper, but maybe Dublin like London as the capital city, they havent gone down as much.

  • june says:

    Yes Zoe i did look at those sites and found them very metropolitan based, somehow i cant see them working in my provincial city. Also some did seem a bit weird and im def not interested in 20 and 30 year olds, my friends in their 40s find them too young let alone me. I dont think i quite want that much of an adventurelol

    No its men in their 50s i prefer but they all want much younger women, well ones in my area do. If i was prepared to accept someone older than me i probably could get someone, but i cant even contemplate it, I know one man older than me who is still fanciable, one of my friends brother in law, hes half french! which probably says it all, but hes happily married, The rest no sorry cant go there, it would feel like going out with my dad,and their ideas about life and everything just are not mine, I only have 2 female friends my own age, i seem to get on better with people in 40s and 50s, think i was born 10 to 20 years too early or my very liberal, easy going parents brought me up differently to most people of my generation, i just dont know why i cant seem to gell with my own generation.

  • Doc says:

    Hmmmm… I have to say that my preference for older women (when I was younger) had to do with the fact that they were much less into “games” – and since my primary criteria was and still is, if I find her attractive, I’m good. Older women knew what they wanted, and there was nothing in the way to getting it. She had a house, there was no worry about birth-control (remember I’m “older” now so back then – 70s – high-school good-girls weren’t on the Pill), and older women were willing. Heck, young women were a pain in the a** – lots of games, with no return. As a result, I went with women at least 10-15+ year my senior till I was in Grad-school. At that time younger women were finally getting on the Pill – they didn’t want you to wear a condom (this was pre-AIDS) and I was a lot more confident in what I wanted, and enjoyed making her play my game – although I still found some older women attractive.

    These days, I still don’t use condoms – heck, I’ll pass… That has actually sealed the deal with more younger women since most of them tell a guy he has to wear a condom, and he will. I’ll punt and tell her, if I wanted to f**k a balloon I don’t need her and she needs to grow up. It amazes me that women will say they have a boyfriend and have been dating for years and he always wears a condom, or she doesn’t take the Pill. To me, that is BS… Fortunately, I have a supply of “Morning After” pills, so no worries, if she isn’t on the Pill… I hand her a packet on the way out the door… :)

    My point is each – younger or older – woman offers different things. And as a man, they offer what I wanted at various times in my life – when I was younger, older women were what I needed. Now, I enjoy younger women… Mostly because it’s still what I find attractive – heck, even “older” women are younger than me these days… So I guess the idea of “older” women in my mind is still 30-40’s, and younger are teens-20’s. I have gotten into trouble saying that a woman is “older” when she’s almost 20 years younger than me, but to me, my age doesn’t enter into it – it’s her age that determines if she is “older” or “younger”… It may not be “fair” but life isn’t fail… Fairness doesn’t enter into the picture – it didn’t when I was 15, and doesn’t’ now – it is what women find attractive… Of course, the man still has to drive the deal, didn’t matter if I was 15 or 50… If you want it – it’s still up to you to seal the deal…

    Of course, your mileage may vary – so take the above as one perspective… Ultimately, you have to decide what works for you. That is all that matters at the end of the day – if you can look in the mirror and be happy with your actions, no one else can or should be able to effect your view of yourself.

    • Elle says:

      “These days, I still don’t use condoms – heck, I’ll pass…” Doc, do you realise how dangerous this is? You are exposing yourself to STDs this way. For example, there is a strain of drug-resistant gonorrhoea doing the rounds and if you don’t use condoms you are putting yourself and your young partners at risk. Whatever about you, it wouldn’t be fair to put a young woman at risk of contracting an incurable STD. See link:

      http://www.who.int/mediacentre/news/notes/2012/gonorrhoea_20120606/en/

    • Minnow says:

      This man (Doc) lives in fantasy land. He hands her a “packet” of morning after “pills” on his way out the door? Nonsense! How may does he think she should take? Rubbish. I do wonder if some (note the word ‘some’) older men revise their past somewhat and create little fantasies about how they wish it had been and then enjoy telling fictional tales of sexual bravado to boost their failing self-esteem.

    • Minnow says:

      “These days, I still don’t use condoms” … “if I wanted to f**k a balloon…” Oh, get over yourself! Prat!

  • june says:

    Can i get this straight Doc you are saying it dosent matter how good a woman looks for her age,its the age she is that matters,. So although females always remark on how young i look for my age,and tell me ive the figure a woman 30 yrs younger,the only men who would be interested in me would be a 80 or 90 year old.

    Of course ,many men of my age look very much older than they should, and thats ok for them to have a women of 30 or 40, No it damm well isnt fair but would these 30 or 40 years olds want them without a hefty bank balance. Dont see too many women of that age going after 60 plus dustmen and manual workers. Men will do kid themselves dont they. Ronnie Wood included.

  • James B says:

    No Condoms Doc? Gosh. Not a wise position to take is it? Let’s hope you stay healthy. There is a lot of very dangerous sexually transmitted hepatitis about too – you don’t want that.

    • Jill says:

      Nor does any woman unfortunate enough to have sex with him and not insist he uses a condom. Not merely a prat, but an arragoant and dangerous member of society.

      • Jill says:

        Oops, sorry, that should have been “arrogant” – ‘phone went and I pressed “send” before checking my spelling….but the strength of my sentiments are by no means diminished.

      • Minnow says:

        I agree, Jill – arrogant, certainly, but dangerous? Yes, if any of this were true. I think all of that nonsense exists merely in his head. Women are confident and informed enough to take charge of their own fertility. He throws a packet of morning-after pills in her direction as he saunters out the door (or ushers her out of his door). Complete fantasy. I wouldn’t believe it for a minute. What man carries a supply of morning-after pills? Seriously? And only one is required – not a “packet”.

        “Now, I enjoy younger women” “teens-20s” “my age doesn’t enter into it”. Oh, get a grip, please! Nonsense! What younger woman would risk her future fertility by sleeping with a condomless oul codger who has been round the block so many times he is probably dripping with chlamydia? Unless, of course, she is vulnerable and has been groomed by a manipulative predator.

        “lots of games, with no return” probably sums up his sexual past.

      • fi says:

        :lol: it’s all fantasy.

  • Jill says:

    Yes, Minnow, I also doubt this man’s probity, but I used the word “dangerous” advisedly in the sense that a man who dices with the health and well-being of his sexual partners can indeed endanger them in terms of their fertility. A lovely young woman of my acquaintance lost her virginity to a young man who assured her that there was no chance that he might pass on any form of STD – she subsquently discovered that she was infertile as a result of contracting chlamydia from this very first boyfriend. She was married by then and she and her husband were trying hard to have a baby. Tragically, when he discovered the reason for her infertility, he left her. Now she has no hope of having her own biological children and is no longer married.

  • Jo says:

    This ‘Doc’ person (or should that be ‘Dog’?) spouts a whole load of fantastical – indeed fantasy – nonsense, then sits back and waits for the inevitable fall-out. No doubt licking his crusty old lips with satisfaction.
    He clearly enjoys being provocative and spinning these laughable yarns. Always casting himself as some sort of ‘teens-20’s’ babe magnet.
    It would be laughable if it wasn’t so pathetic. (Actually it’s both.).
    It’s crap girls. He transparently enjoys being provocative.
    Waste no more words nor energy on him. It fuels him. It’s what he wants. It aint worth it.
    Ignore…….

  • py says:

    T.M.I., Elle, T.M.I. !

  • nico says:

    Point of reflection on the Titled column header: what would you advise for an inexperienced older woman (circa 45)

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