Please Advise…
August 15, 2013 § 256 Comments
Old friend – we’ve fancied each other for twenty maybe even thirty years (fuck, can I be that old?) and acknowledged it (verbally, relatively recently) – has just separated from his wife. By amicably mutual agreement.
I don’t know if he’s already with someone else. I think not, despite my theory that no man EVER leaves his wife for a vacuum; there is always a woman he’s already screwing or at least one who has given every indication that she will willingly, gratefully, wantonly screw him the nanosecond that he gives her the green light to do so. I presume he is already sleeping with several 27 or 35 year olds, or what have you. I wouldn’t say no myself but I would also hope for something a little more deep and permanent, and not to be just one of countless cloves in the pomander.
What I have over the taut-twat brigade is something no amount of youth and pelvic-floor exercises can replicate, namely history – and I KEEP hearing about people in middle age marrying old friends; such a simple but stunningly good idea. History, and a biological clock which has so stopped even a mugger in Chelsea wouldn’t give it the time of day.
This old friend fancies me, and me him, and I make him laugh, and him me.
We have exchanged emails. He has told me what happened; I have sent a sympathetic one back.
Now, WTF?
I have, at my reckoning, before some taut-twat – or some other not such taut twat – gets him, about ten minutes.
Help!
The Plankton 
Maybe you are the one he has in mind now that he is separated from his wife. Why not ask him out for dinner? Give it a go…
Thank you, though I’d so fear he’d smell a rat. Pxx
Oh for fuck’s sake, stop being so pathetic.
Just do it. If there’s one thing worse than rejection it’s wondering “what if” when you haven’t even tried.
Maybe I’m repeating whats been said below, I just couldn’t be bothered to scroll down to read the normal repetitive drivel.
Proceed with caution. You are wise to think that he may already have someone or someone in mind. How nice if you are that one! Whatever you do, do not be his “transition” fling (or even relationship). It’s true that first loves/old friends fair better and last longer when reuniting at midlife, but it’s also true that usually the first relationship after a divorce comes with a built-in expiration date! Please keep us posted.
Thanks, Anne. I promise I’ll keep you posted. Pxx
send him the link to this post. If it were me i’d definitely choose you over taut ones. Nothing to lose.
Are you pulling my leg? Pxx
errrr no. We are simple creatures not used to “subtle”, so a direct approach has nothing to lose. Plus he will be totally intrigued, well i would be m’dear.
I think leave it a week, as Barry says, no? Pxx
Really Rod? You think men really respond to a direct approach as opposed to subtle feminine flirting? Which do you think leads to a more lasting relationship?
Not too long back I read a man complaining online of older women throwing themselves at him. This is no dig to “older women”, I am one of them! But he said it was a major turn off. Men go for, in the long run, feminine women….or at least 80% of them. That is what keeps their interest.
Dear Anon,
mmmmm
What i was trying to say is we aren’t too “subtle” therefore may miss what you consider to be the bloomin’ obvious even if cloaked as “feminine flirting”. Now both genders generally enjoy this pastime.
However wholly agree that the most interesting & stimulating companions of either sex are the only ones to go for.
Oh by the way poppet, my preferences definitely lie with the women born 1950-1965, but this is another story. As the Croatian saying goes “old bones, good soup”.
This was not intended to offend any one…………………
Rod…when a man is interested he will act. And giving signs such as listening to him, smiling and be friendly is enough…enough to a man who is really interested. A man won’t give up on a woman if he is really interested. Let him lead would be my advice.
Dear Anon, my “subtle flirting” with you appears to of been in vain….
I would give it a week or so …
At least, I think. Thanks. Pxx
This is my honest advice. Find and develop your femininity and get in shape. These two things a lone will work wonders. You don’t “do” anything to get a man, you attract him. If you want a masculine man and if you want to be cherished, be more feminine! That means in mind, body and spirit. Stop the cursing, the bitterness, the sarcasm…that is such a turn off! It’s amusing here and in your writings but not good for attracting men. Get in shape and be as attractive as possible. Being out of shape is the worst thing a middle aged person dating can be. After that choose clothing that conveys softness, and your womanliness. Again, you don’t “do” anything you attract. Read Katarina Phangs stuff. Read Evan Marc Katz stuff. Get a dating coach who will be honest with you with what you need to do. Complaining all the time here creates lots of fun and interest for your readers but will do little for your love life.
I started exercising again yesterday. Well, it’s a start. Pxx
I think she’s only 8 stone so I don’t think she has too much to worry about on the looking slim and fit side of things. Being positive happy and exuding joy though may need to be worked on. Whatever your gender most of us want a happy content partner who sees happiness in life and the positive side of things. I suspect that’s much more the reason I never seem to find it hard to attract men who want relationships than anything to do with my bust size or shape although the fact I am not fat will help (and to be fair I don’t date fat men either).
speaking as a man i’d put my cards on the table and just talk to him and ask him out. if the friendship is that strong it can’t be broken by a ” you fancy dinner sometime ? ”
you only live once hon.
good luck.x
Thanks, Mel. Not sure I have the courage, but who knows? May do. Pxx
You could do that but why not just be friendly and open and have HIM make the move? Let him know via listening, smiling, enjoying him that you are open. Let him decide. When they decide the interest lasts much longer IMO.
That’s the problem though – just listening might not be unsubtle enough for some people to get the message (whether they are male or female).
The bible advises that “fancying each other for 20 or 30 years” constitutes mental adultery and that you will suffer the consequences come your judgement day.
Did your husband know that you were committing mental adultery with this individual?
You may well mock, but even people less spiritually blessed than I can see how wrong “fancying “each other can be.
The separation was by “amicably mutual agreement” ? Please! How many people can ever say that? One person is the instigator and the other, to keep up appearances, goes along with the “mutual”line.
I would like to ask an open question to your readers -how often is a breakup mutual? Honest answers only…
I knew him aeons ago, long before marriage. Then we lost touch for years and only met up by chance again about 5 years ago, after my marriage had broken up. I am not going to feel guilty about remembering I fancied someone years ago, fancying him again, then doing precisely nothing about it precisely because he was married. He loved and didn’t want to be unfaithful to his wife; I don’t sleep with married men. End of. We both behaved impeccably. But that’s never going to make headlines. Pxx
Joshua, are you kidding? Just what we needed, a religious fanatic commenting on the blog.
Well to be fair we haven’t had one of those yet, and it’s probably about time. Could be fun for a while 🙂
Fi, 😀
St Paul did say that wishing it, adultery in the heart, was as bad as sticking part A into hole B etc.
Very rarely mutual (my ex no way wanted me to divorce him etc).
However I do think someone I saw in 2010 and I had a mutual break up. Sometimes it happens. Most divorce is instigated by women, a much higher number than men who prefer just to chug along without change which requires effort. Many of those men pretend it was mutual to save face when usually their wife dumped them.
There’s a reason why I’m alone I reckon … but I’d see if he comes around to me. He knows there’s a mutual attraction, let’s see what he does with it.
You don’t want to be his buddy helping him sort things out (his stepping stone) and then he’s on to other things. There’s a reason most people won’t date someone newly divorced.
Or you could risk it, throw all caution to the wind, satisfy your curiosity and to heck with the consequences.
Thanks, Eve. Pxx
I left it a week….and She told me she loved me, and we fled to Paris to consummate our love …… Give it a week P …and book a hotel xx
Book a hotel? You’re kidding? Couldn’t! pxx
Is a difficult dilemma. Am in a similar situation myself. Not wanting to become the rebound shag then quickly forgotten. Try playing it cool, bit of distance. If all else fails any shags better than none….especially if it’s been a while. Good luckxx
Thanks. Pxx
You have no time to lose. Ask him out to dinner somewhere fabulous. Look your absolute best. Have a grand time. Then pounce. Repeat.
This
Ummm. Will think about this one. Pxx
This is the most sensible advice so far. Plankton, remember the advice of your Wise Old Aunt:
When a man becomes available you have precisely ten minutes to snap him up.
That’s TEN MINUTES in case you didn’t hear me the first time.
Do what Miss Bates says. Ask him out to dinner somehwere fabulous. Look your absolute best. Have a grand time. Hopefully he will pounce but if he doesn’t you pounce!
Good luck.
Pounce? Really? You think that causes a man to feel more attraction? If you do this you may get a very casual shag that will last one time…and that would be it. If you want lasting attraction/affection…be alluring let him make the move. Just my opinion.
The risk of this, of course, is that he will only shag you, once. Hurt feelings might ensue and the friendship tarnished. What do you want Plankton? A shag? Or a real affectionate relationship? If the latter, let him do the initiating. Your job is to respond with joy and to let him know flirting that you are “open”. Just my opinion…for what it’s worth I hope you have a great time whatever happens.
Yes, but most British men are utterly useless at these things and often do need the woman to initiate (and plenty of men are submissive anyway and can even desire it) otherwise they never do anything as they are too shy or inadequate or think they might be rejected.,
For the record…If she invites him, then she offers to pay the bill. Although, I’m sure he wouldn’t allow her to pay.
Indeed. Nothing wrong with women paying. Many meny out of a divorce having to pay a divorce settlement to a lazy low earner or housewife who has lived off male earnings do not want to replicate that scenario.
He’s a man. Remember, subtle signals DO NOT WORK.
Just tell him, he’ll be delighted & flattered. We like having our ego stroked.
Did someone suggest a dating coach? Dear God….
Obviously an American. A man too.
Yes you like your ego stroke but does that build attraction/love for a woman? No. It may lead to a quick shag (which is OK if that is what she wants) but if she wants to develop lasting attraction…sorry you men don’t respond to being “pounced” or “hit over the head”.
Anonymous, are you male or female?
Yes, you often have to spell it out. I really don’t think most men mind.
Obviously an American? Pray tell.
Dating coach. Steve responds in the appropriately British way to the suggestion “Dear God….”
🙂
ROFL
I shall refer to my teenager for a translation! Pxx
Damn right!!
I say do nothing, P. If he likes you, he’ll come after you.
P, are you friends with his wife? It might get a bit awkward and she might not like the whole situation.
We have an unspoken rule here in Portugal: friends’ ex-husbands are off- limits, no matter how attractive or nice they are.
No, I’m not friends with his wife. I’ve met her a couple of times and she seems lovely. I was worrying about that, especially because I liked her when I met and spoke to her briefly but, no, I wouldn’t call her a friend by any stretch. Pxx
Hi plangton, have not commented for a while but have still kept up with your postings on your blog since last time i commented !
There is an old saying that has lived down through all of time, and that is” OLD FREINDS ARE BEST” !
Forget about the adultry thinking bit for the last 30 years or whatever !
Just like you i loved a woman before i got married but because she got pregnant by somebody else and decided to marry them i decided whats the point of trying to persue it anymore ?
But after a year or two she realised she had made a mistake and contacted me with a view to coming back to me again, but at this stage i myself had got married and was totaly commited to my wife,but remained very good freinds even to this day with this ex of mine and all with the full knowledge of my wife and her husband !
As couples and freinds we spent the best part of 25 years socialising at partys , dances etc.. together as couples with other coupled freinds obviously included as well .
But we always just clicked together laughed and always had fun !
Then the shit hit the fan and about 4 years ago she seperated from her husband and about 4 months later again informed me that she still had feelings for me .
I again had to reiterate to her that i was still married to my wife and intended for things to remain that way for the rest of my life but that i would remain her freind and a shoulder to cry on if need be for the same period of time .
4 months later she sold up and moved to the states without warning and i have not heard from or know where she is now !
Little did i know that 12 months later(3 years ago) while working 2-3 jobs putting my kids through college that my own wife had been having an affair for over 2 years and as you already know are seperated now for 3 years and i still have no interest in going through all that pain again !
But might have tried at least with my old ex if she was still around !
We were good freinds, made each other laugh and always enjoyed each others company .
My question to you is ” WHAT BETTER WAY TO START A RELATIONSHIP” ?
YOU ARE ALREADY FREINDS,MAKE EACH OTHER LAUGH ETC….
Just take it slowly, get to know each other better and worry about the sex later .
If he is really interested he will feel the same way ?
This could really be the one that you have been waiting for all this time and destiny may have finally shown its face .
Enjoy the moment either way .
DAN.
Can’t you find her??? It can’t be beyond the wit of man, surely? Pxx
Sorry plangton but for me this game is all over !
Been there, done all that but will never get over my wife !
My lover, best freind and then wife and mother to my 4 beautiful kids who are all through college now, all working, and all in england believe it or not .
Only for them i believe i would not be walking this earth right now !
When you lose something so special , you just know that nothing could ever even come close to what you already had and as a result would only fuck up some other persons life because they would never be able to match those very special feelings that you shared with that very special person that only comes around once in a lifetime and will never be found again !
Like i already said, meet up somehow, take it slowly, show your innerself without throwing yourself at him but just let him know that your interested .
I really believe that this could be the very person that you have been waiting for just by the way that you have explained your story !
The foundation is allready there and ticking all the right boxes .
Go for it girl and let us all know how you get on ?
Wish you all the best !
DAN.
First reply ever to a post from a contributor.
Da,n your story really moved me, I do hope you find your old friend again . Please post when you do !
Best Wishes, Barry
I think he has had enough of it all with women and woill be happier without finding someone. There is always a suggestion on plankton that all people are happiest with a partner. I do not believe that to be so at all.
Plankton…this can be a very lovely experience hooking up with someone in the past. I hope it happens. I want to ask you….do you want a relationship or a one time deal? Because if you want a relationship my advice would not be to ask him out but to subtly show your interest by flirting and friendliness. Look your best be warm and inviting. If you just would like to have a romp, that probably won’t last, then I’d say “pounce”. But I think attracting their affections makes for more lasting attraction and relationships. Good luck.
Thank you. No, not wanting just a one-off. Pxx
Dear P – have been absent from here for about a year but still get your posts in my email. I can’t believe I am saying this but I agree with Miss Bates. Because if you don’t pounce on him, someone else will. They are probably circling him like vultures as we speak. Just go for it!!! WTH have you got to lose?!! The planets are aligned my dear. This is a golden opportunity being placed in your lap. Don’t fuck it up!
I’ll do my best, but it’s someone with dyspraxia tightrope walking! Pxx
When in doubt, I consult Nike commercials….
I suggest meeting up for coffee and a chat. You can always go on to dinner afterwards if things look hopeful.
There’s nothing predatory about coffee and you are old friends so it would be a completely normal friendly thing to do.
Good point. Pxx
The best suggestion I’ve read. Simple. Honest. No Pretension.
i think it bizarre the way women seem to think men are like parking spaces and you have to ‘get in there first’.
Fi, from a male perspective i wish this were true. However to continue your metaphor methinks the Plankton has spotted a scarce, tight parking space & is afraid to begin a parallel parking manoeuvre. Decision time, try or move on not knowing how far away next space may be?
Yep – mirror (check appearance); indicate (your intentions quite clearly); manoeuvre ( sharpen those elbows Ms P and trash the opposition).
As for your belief that a man never leaves a marriage unless he has already eyed a fresh nest to roost in, I’m sorry , but that is quite simply not the case.
As for the T.T. races , Donne said that “No Man is an Island”, an interpretation being that a human being will not thrive in isolation . So, all the more reason to toll his particular bell .
Steady Rod, I’ve tried to explain that the general perception that any single man who has gone through puberty has dozens of women to choose from is nonsense, but no-one believes me……
I suspect those women who think they will never find a man, that men are some kind of superior rare thing they will be lucky to find and believe men are like gold dust don’t find men. Those of us who are happy, find men fairly easily and think any man who is with us would be terribly lucky (as I feel) find men easily . There are equal numbers . It is just a self esteem issue.
He is letting you know he is available. Don’t rush in but equally you must register your interest, though not in a sledgehammer manner. Keep the exercise up and make yourself alluring. Keep the laughter going but don’t play your comic card all the time, you have to mix it up. Sexy, funny, sassy and peppered with your clever wit, an appetising dish that he will want to devour, you can do it.
Wow, that sounds like a lot of effort. You could just ask him if he wanted to have dinner….
Follow the sage male advice of Steve. Ask him to dinner sooner rather than later, preferably for this evening.
Or better still tell your teenagers they can stay out all night and invite your old friend over for dinner and cook for him!
If he’s not worth the effort, why bother at all?
Steve that’s perfectly fine…as friends catching up. But I would never do the “pounce” or “sledgehammer” plan ever. That won’t be effective for the long run.
Yes, it’s very simple. No games. No putting things on. Be yourself. Be very clear. Say what you mean.
Thanks, SMF, I think you have more confidence in me than I do! Pxx
Plankton,
Wait 10 minutes or 1 week…compromise… 3.5 days.
Call him, find out “how’s it going?”. Chit chat for a while. Bring up old friend stuff. The fun and funny times. Re-establish the friendship as a foundation.
Gauge him. Is he okay about the break up? Confident and moving along? Or is he distraught and heart-broken? Whatever the case.. be encourgaging, positive, light at the end of the tunnel, things happen for a reason stuff. You have your own experience.
DO NOT rescue him, mother him, baby him. Im sure he is a man. You must find that balance of “frienship/caring interest” and aloofness.
What do I mean by aloofness? You have your life. A life full of exciting adventures, stories, hobbies, experiences. You cannot and will not give all your time for him. He must see this side of you! You are not just sitting at home, waiting for prince charming.
Suggest “we need to hang out” or “I would like for us hang out”. Do not ask to meet. There is a subtle difference in this. AND WAIT FOR HIS RESPONSE. If he says “yes”, then ask if there is a place that he “fancies”. Set day/time. If he cannot think of a place then you CHOOSE one. Set day/time.
If he says “no” then say you understand that he needs his time. BUT, that you will bring up the subject of hanging out in a few days to “catch up”. You are just planting a seed. This won’t happen if you execute the above correctly.
Now, if he is seeing other people or has someone else in mind, who the fuck cares. You must put in your mind they are just there for whatever reason. YOU MUST THINK YOU ARE THE PRIZE. This is your attitude. That spending time with you is a good thing for him. Your vibe WILL transfer to him only if you demonstrated with CONFIDENCE. Nothing is more sexier/attractive than confidence. CONFIDENCE with a tiny…very tiny hint of cockiness (sassy). As a woman, you must maintain your poise and femininity.
You just started working out… SHIT. You should have been doing this all along. Men are VISUAL. We all know it. The better you look physically the more… well you know. PLUS, it reduces stress and blood pressure, raises endorphines….blah, blah, blah. Continue to workout whether you are successful with this man or not.
ATTITUDE IS EVERYTHING
I agree with Rico on the being a warm friendly casual friend first and the gauge where he is at. Just be nice, warm and inviting.
But I don’t agree in the disregarding whether he is into someone else and to just think you are the prize. I think that is just ego stuff. Thinking you are the prize won’t make him think you are, you will just think that.
I still say be nice, be sweet, be alluring, be fun, be warm….if he is interested he will act. He will feel you out, too, where you are at. I would not throw myself at him or lead him. Your job is to make yourself “open”. If he is into someone else…you need to let go and let him do his thing. I’d only go out romantically if he initiated it.
So true…throw that Prize stuff in the bushes.
Anon,
In your post above you stated to be “alluring” as well as other things. How does Ms. Plankton become “alluring”? Specifically, I mean. Being nice, sweet, fun, warm is great. I know many that are/show/demonstrate these qualities…. but are not “alluring” to me or many of people I associated with.
BTW… I agree that we can disagree on what we write (smiley face)…..
Oh good question! Hmmm maybe I should re think that word. Being “alluring” can be many things and I would save it for when it’s certain he is interested in more. Let me change my words. For now I think it’s good for her to be sweet, warm, kind, fun and look nice. That is enough for now. Now is the time to catch up, be friendly and have fun.
Low cut top
its a real tightrope walk nightmare for a woman of a certain age isn’t it?
i’m a late 50’s male and myself and my (single ) male contempories fall into two catagories.
either ( like me ) given up looking/hoping because the result is always being told ” not good looking or rich enough.goodbye ”
or
banging everything in sight below the age of 45 and won’t consider women of their own age. quote: ” do me a favour , they have given up on sex ”
hope it works out for you , i really do .
P – Follow Miss Bates advice.
Call him, arrange to meet, if he is a friend he will tell you what is up. If there is no one else involved go for it; if he is not interested he will tell you and you can remain friends. Do not be kicking yourself later when you find out he was interested but thought you were not.
I agree with Ms. Anonymous’ advice. : )
Dear Plankton-in-Chief. This column was entitled ‘Please advise’ and the advice has been plentiful. May I suggest that in order to gain an insight into how a man thinks, ask a man.
Now, look at the advice of Rod, Mel, Scott & myself. We’ve all said the same thing. Now, ask yourself this; is that just a coincidence, or is there a slight chance we might be right?
Steve, well summarised. Difficult to argue when 4 astute, handsome, witty, oh & modest chaps independently concur. Think you need to respond Miss P.
We could be wrong- Remember, I said that I consult advertising mottos from sneakers commercials for advice about relationships, women and other life decisions (“trainers” in their language….)
Steve, I don’t mean to infer that I simply “just do it” every time that I’m in the presence of a woman who wants to- As recently as this past autumn of 2012, I intentionally turned down an opportunity to spend an evening in a woman’s apartment, and she’d made it pretty clear to me that she was willing to do just about anything at all that I desired- She appeared to be, in my opinion- and you’ll have to forgive me here, I don’t know how this phrase translates into the U.K. version of our language- let’s just say, a few baskets short of a picnic, and I decided that it was probably best to spend yet another night alone….
P
I don’t think theres anything wrong with asking him out, I have asked men out in the past, with varying results. I asked my ex husband out and later asked him to marry me. (but in hindsight that was a bad idea!!)
Whatever you’re comfortable with.
Maybe something that doesnt scream “date!”, but that does involve alcohol. I wouldn’t be inviting anyone out for a fancy meal, (although I might cook one, as I like cooking)
Good luck.
Rather than asking him ‘out’, which, depending on his state of mind post break up might freak him out, why not just say ‘hey, what are you doing on [insert a date], I’m having some friends round for drinks, wanna come?’ And then invite some friends round. You can then gauge his relationship status without it seeming you’re pouncing or ambushing him while there’s just the two of you.
Mel, do women actually tell you to your face (or some other means of communication) that you’re not good looking/rich enough?
It’s all rather too complicated … if he likes you he’ll ask you to do lunch or coffee or whatever the going ‘thing’ is … if he doesn’t he wont.
I tend towards agreeing with the post way above, that said something along the lines of … your life is fantastic and pretty darn exciting and if Mr Old Friend wants to get on board and enjoy the fruits of your amazing person, then he bloody well should. If he chooses some other taut twat, then that is his choice, would you want to come second behind a taut twat?? I wouldn’t.
We 40+ women sit around and mull these things over way too much, yes this is 2014 and we apparently don’t have to wait for the guy, we are supposed to be all gung ho and ask them out … this causes us and our friends to enter into hours of discussion centred around the topic off: ‘should we ask him out or not’ … most women will of course send a text (regardless) saying something like ‘hey just wondering how you are … let me know if you’d like to catch up for coffee’, thinking we are being friendly and suitably cool … if the man doesn’t respond we second guess; our friends suggest he may have met someone else; we send another text … now we are bordering on losing all dignity.
Yes a relationship with Mr Old Friend would be lovely, nothing better than being able to enjoy the company of someone you’ve mentally put on a pedastool for the past 30 years … but would a relationship with yourself be better ie be confident that you are amazing and if he wants to jump on that bandwagon he will????
PS just wondering what exactly did you ‘mutually amicably agree’ on??? that you had a crush on each other when you were in your 20’s?? that you always had a crush on each other, or that your crushes have been recently renewed upon him separating from his wife??
rosie, not in so many words but its reality as i’ve observed it.
maybe its different in the metropolis but here in the sticks nice guys who aren’t lookers/rich are trampled underfoot in the rush to get to the utter cads .
anyway, i don’t want to make this about me, i’m quite happily settled in solitude and semi squalor.
its hope that wrecks men, not loneliness.
i think most men are genuinely perplexed by womens propensity for bad un’s
I never want bad uns, but I do need someone on a par with me – so my sort of level of looks/health and my sort of life/career/income.
A man is a man is a man! Whatever their age they like the chase! So my advice is be flirty but let him chase you!
The ones on here seem to like being chased. Though presumably it depends on the woman doing the chasing, and the lengths to which she will go; then again, thats what the police are for.
“then again, thats what the police are for” 😀
Although i think you have hit the nail on the head. The ones on here do seem to like being chased. But then they keep moaning they can’t get a woman so I daresay they would say that. I don’t know that men who can, would.
And surely far better to just flirt a bit and give him encouragement and allow him to pursue you IF HE WANTS TO rather than put yourself in the potentially humiliating position of chasing after a bloke who may be forced to make it clear that he doesn’t find you attractive.
If a man wants you and knows you like him he will take the opportunity. If he doesn’t then it is because he isn’t interested. If it really is because he’s ‘scared’ of doing so then you’ve had a lucky escape – who on earth would want a man too useless to pursue a woman that he wants who has given him signals she is interested.
Mel, I would advise you to become a cad but that’s as ridiculous as saying just *be* someone else. If there is such a thing as rebirth (please don’t let there be) I want to come back as a cad.
Presumably a male cad, Rosie…?! Speaking personally, I just want to come back as a man, full stop. It would be so illuminating to see all of this from the other end of the telescope. (No – on second thoughts, not just as a man, but a KIND man.)
P, I would keep well away from this man, for now.
I know that is not what you want to hear, but I needed to say it. Sorry….
I agree – “for now”. I had to curtail my post above, but was going to say very much the same thing as Bambi – in my admittedly limited experience, “separation” is a phase from which the individual needs to have moved on before becoming involved with a new significant other. At the very least, you run the risk, Ms P, of being implicated in any forthcoming divorce proceedings, however innocent your involvement might be. I don’t believe that you are the sort of person who would contemplate having even a scintilla of responsibility for causing another woman the sort of heartache you have endured. So much better to stand back and simply lend moral support as a friend while (and until) the situation becomes more concrete.
Yes that’s true. I hadn’t read the post carefully enough.
Separated = still married. Big red flag.
Sure. Pxx
Indeed. Thanks. Pxx
No, that’s OK. You’re probably right. pxx
And ‘just’ separated = Bigger Red Flag, for several reasons. 1.It may not really be over. 2. Even if it is, most people, male or female, resemble something akin to a spinning top immediately post-separation.and are genuinely incapable of entering another ‘serious’ relationship for a time. 3. If he is snapped up in ten minutes by a taut twat, then maybe he is not the man for P and it is not meant to be….?
I like the parking space analogy. As a public transport user (currently), does this mean that all I have to do is stand and wait for the next ‘bus’ to come along, rather than try any or all of the manoeuvres suggested above? Happy days!
Ah, still married. Best to wait. He will have 2 – 3 years of awful negotiations over money, will lose his home probably and fight over the children and will just want a woman to moan to over that (and perhaps help him out financially) as the financial side of his divorce is yet to come.
Aha, men/buses….you remind me, Bambi, of my late, much-loved, grandfather’s sage words to me, on hearing that my then boyfriend (who later became my husband) and I had parted company – temporarily as it turned out.
“Men, my dear, are like buses” he announced. “There is always another one along in a while, so you never need to run after one.”
Clearly, he never had to wait at peak time for the No. 93 in SW19 !
Then when a bus does finally arrive, should one get on the first which may be heavily burdened with school kids and baggage or wait for the next which may have room for you to at least board ?
Well, PY, my grandfather’s bus analogy was simply meant to provide comfort for my then-broken heart. However, to extrapolate from your witty question, if you don’t have the courage to get on any of the buses which come along – because there are too many children on board, or other perceived deterrents – you might end up being ignored by one that is “Not in Service”, or even find yourself on one that is so knackered that it breaks down on your way home……..If you don’t give a half-decent bus the benefit of the doubt, you can hardly complain if you find yourself walking home on your own!
Oh absolutely , Jill !
In my experience , that applies equally to potential male and female passengers .
Re your comment on the age and road worthiness of the vehicle . Spare parts are easy enough to find, particularly the front bumpers or touching up the coach work but it’s a bugger when the rear shocks have gone.
Frankly, if I am standing by the side of the road in the pouring rain, I am not going to disdain any bus on the grounds of the odd dent or two or a bit of worn upholstery. On the other hand, if it is not road-worthy, that will rapidly become evident – the thing will grind to a halt, and then one has to leap off. I don’t often travel by bus, but I believe that these days some of them are “bendy” – what a bonus!
The London ‘bendy buses’ have been withdraawn from service – too many freeloaders ; not very good around tight corners and a nasty habit of busrting into flames when overloaded. Something to do with the batteries over heating when excessively used .
The so called ‘Boris Bus’ looks an exciting, shiny bit of young design with its soft curves and the added bonus of being able to board it from either the front or the rear. Despite these advantages they are predictably expensive to acquire and to run. They are reportedly very tempremental in the excessive heat of the summer.
Give me a good old fashioned, bright red, double decker of a ‘Route Master’ any day. Dents, chafed upholstery and all. You could jump on and off to your heart’s content – even when moving away or coming to a standstill.
Well, that just shows how long it is since I regularly used buses. The bendy ones have been and gone and I never even travelled on one. Life has been passing me by for too long. Which only strengthens my resolve to get out there and grab it by the scruff of the neck…..
N.B. Re Boris buses – I am not surprised that something young and shiny is expensive to run and temperamental, whether hot or not. Caveat emptor!
I was that man 18 months ago. Again we called it an amicable separation but we both knew I was ending it because I felt my ex was impossible to live with on a daily basis. I was very sure that separation was the right thing to do, and that certainty has sustained me in some low moments since. Often the conflict arises through sharing space, so once that particular battleground has been removed, so absence makes the heart grow fonder – and both parties will be doing their damndest to make the other one regret their part in the break-up.
But my advice to P would be to treat the situation on its merits. Blanket conclusions that separating parties should be avoided are probably wrong. By a fluke I met someone within a few weeks of leaving home and we are still together and having a fine time. She was very sceptical that I was ready for someone new, but gradually I have proved to her that it is possible and we are now buying a house together. But I would insist on him cutting off all contact with his ex other than what is really essential – you really don’t want to share a conflicted heart. And I would take the ages of any children into account too – they will always be his first priority, as will yours.
I would insist on him cutting off all contact with his ex other than what is really essential’. Blanket conclusion, no?
i would ‘insist’ on nothing, Just as I would not expect him to ‘insist’ on my conforming to his rules.
Each to their own.
PS. Where is TLover these days?
At this actual moment, sitting in the kitchen thinking it was becoming autumn chilly in the mornings, wondering how time has flown this year and enjoying Dan’s curtain call.
The caps on all the time comments have gone. The tone has changed. Seems more settled in himself.
You still in London? A success for you?
T Lover, next thing, if you aren’t careful, you will be saying ‘Aren’t the evenings fair drawing in’.
Yes, still in London and still loving it – guess that is success? Discounting my failure to meet you at the infamous meat counter, of course. But at least now I know why – you spend your time in the kitchen, pondering…
Bambi, Bambi, how cruel can you be?
Just up. Disorientated. It didn’t seem light enough. Thought: Nights drawing in. And reached for my slippers.
As for kitchen pondering. True too. Spend too much time worrying.
On the subject of this post. It’s a girls subject. Women who have never spoken still less met busily conspiring about relationships.
I have fancied him for years. He has fancied me for years. Really? Or. He has been giving me one for a while but he was married so it was on the quiet. He has now left his wife. Surprise. Surprise. We are straight into a relationship.
Jamie, congratulations, how I envy you, t’were no fluke but because you are a man (one who obviously doesn’t have a downer on women) and the whole basis of P’s blog!
Rosie,
Lighten up. Don’t be so paranoid.
Plankton , i have never seen on your blog before so many people responding to one of your posts as i have to this one !
I’ve heard everything from chasing to doing yourself up, paying for meals, playing hard to get and on and on and on……….
This guy is obviously hurting at the moment and just for now needs a freind to help him get over this travesty that has occurred in his life !
You were one of those freinds and all he probably needs now is somebody to vent to which may actually help him to get over this travesty that has occurred in his life .
Just be that freind, help him as best you can and as i already told you “OLD FREINDS ARE BEST ” !
Be sympathetic while still trying to lighten the moment and try to get him back to the old days when ye both bonded, laughed and were genuine freinds .
NO GAMES !
Be genuine and just let him see the old you and you may be pleasantly surprised by the responce you get !
It could be the start of a beautiful relationship and if not at least you may have rejuvinated an old freindship !
You have nothing to lose anyway !
DAN.
Ms P, enough of the generalisations. Every case is different.
If your male friend is still pining for his wife then maybe have a cup of coffee or a glass of wine with him and just test his temperature. He will need months to recover.
However, if the break up really is mutual (that means “Bored”) then for goodness sake, at least make contact and have a feminine go at it. You need to subtly remove yourself from the “Just Friends Zone” in his eyes. Or else you will regret it. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. What exactly have you got to lose, P?
From a male point of view, the fact that he informed you about the break up of his marriage is a signal for you to act upon in some way. So stop blogging and see if he feels like a drink. Lunchtime?
James B ‘He will need months to recover’. MONTHS? God, how I wish the recovery from marriage breakup had been that quick.
Took me about 10 YEARS…..!
I think James B’s suggestion is the best yet.
Suggest cake and coffee somewhere nice, maybe near a park where the two of you can take a walk afterwards. You two are clearly close enough to admit that you fancy each other – and presumably you have been alone together before – I imagine he didn’t tell you he fancied you across a dinner party table – so being alone together now should feel quite natural. And if he fancied you ‘relatively recently’ he probably still does. Don’t make a big deal out of it – just show your genuine concern for how he is feeling – as you would do with any friend who is going through a marriage break up. And if you make each other laugh, chances are you will lighten his mood and give him some welcome respite from what he’s going through. Coffee, cake, sympathy and laughter – and a walk in the park – for now.
I will certainly second that wise advice, P. Please just make sure that you don’t get hurt; there will inevitably be fall-out from his marriage, and – to mix my metaphors – you don’t need or want to get caught in the crossfire……
Can we please avoid use of the phrase “taut twat” and comparable sounding phrases in future blog posts here?
Some of us haven’t touched one in years…..
I’m in pain here…..
Miss P, chances are he will know exactly what you are after when you call him, no matter what you say or how you try to frame it. Men aren’t as clueless as women like to think. If you are anything less than honest about your intentions, it will backfire and you may appear to be a vulture, and not even a brazen one.
The man isn’t even out of a relationship yet, he’s still married. It still is permissible for him to get out and about and sow some oats with the lasses if he’s capable (which he must be, if he weren’t, you wouldn’t fancy him in the first place). Chances are he’s not going to have the same level of desire for a relationship as you are..
Hey, you could always stick around to be the shoulder he cries upon when he’s being battered about on the sea of love.
I
“Men aren’t as clueless as women like to think. …”
We’re not?
They’re not?
The only thing more annoying than women who disparage men are the men who go along with that charade in the hopes of appealing to women. Those men end up with the women they deserve. Fortunately, guys like me end up with the women we deserve also.
Sure. Point taken. Am in fact doing nothing. The better course, I suspect. Pxx
Please, Plankton, do NOT ‘do nothing’. Be the best friend you can possibly be.
Let everything else take it’s course. Let’s face it there are a lot of things just about to ‘take their course’. The shock and devastation of a marriage break up hits everyone, even if the situation is planned and amicable, largely because it is impossible to anticipate what this is actually going to feel like until it happens. You have been through it all yourself. It is not a pleasant experience by a long shot.
Be the best friend you can possibly be.
I will, of course, be the best friend I can possibly be but I had better be careful. My (male) bf is a great friend of his and promises that he is “on a mission” on my behalf. He (my male bf) is just back from holiday and I hope to speak to him on the telephone today as he promised the minute he was home he’d be “on it”. And he’s great like that, so let us see! Pxx
Malcolm
I was thinking about you, as I got chatted up on Monday by the barrista in the place I sometimes get my morning coffee. Not asked me out though (yet). I had noticed him previously and thought he had a nice friendly face (though a bit chubby). It appears he likes cycling too. I am totally discombobulated, and haven’t been able to face going back in there, having instant in the office instead. Just rubbish at this flirting stuff. 😦
Muriel , if you don’t know it, track down and listen to “Taylor, the Latte Boy” – Kristen Chenoweth – it might put a milk moustached smile on your face.
Muriel, isn’t the office instant unbearable? I think you need to head straight back into your cafe without passing Go, just straight there. This instant! Good luck. Pxx
Yes I will. On Monday.
PY
I listened to Taylor the Latte Boy, and also Taylor’s rebuttal.
Heaven forfend I should ever be referred to as “Muriel the stalker chick”.
Muriel, keep going back and getting your coffee there. You only live once (unless you’re a Buddhist). You are now experiencing the dilemma every male has had to cope with since the age of 15 or thereabouts, the risk of losing a potential relationship vs the risk of being seen as a stalker. Fortunately for you, you are a woman, so there is no potential prison time should you misjudge the situation or happen to be infatuated with someone who is unbalanced,
Oh dear , Muriel ! Have just tracked down ‘ the rebuttal ‘ version – what a hoot .
Addictive stuff , coffee – so go steady on the java joy perhaps .
Murial, get yourself back to the coffee shop! I passed up so many chances when I was younger (I scrubbed up quite well) because of shyness and, while it may or may not have been a factor in me becoming a plankton, I’ll never stop wondering. Horrid. Do your hair, deep breaths and good luck!
Yes I know you’re right. Good idea about the hair, I look like Wurzel Gummidge at the moment. I’ll brush it anyway. I don’t know what I’m getting my knickers in a twist about, I wasn’t giving this man a thought before Monday.
“Can we please avoid use of the phrase “taut twat” and comparable sounding phrases in future blog posts here? Some of us haven’t touched one in years…..”
Dude, you REALLY need to get out more! Have you missed the memo? Women are easy, especially young women who all want to “experience” life – and as an older man, guess what? You have the knowledge and she wants to know what she’s missing… Perfect match – horny goat, young willing woman… What’s not to enjoy?
Look, I target only young women – 18-25, why? Because they are easy, and not looking for anything long term. They want sex as much as you do – and have amazingly few hang-ups, and the hang-ups they have usually focus around “Daddy” so you’re golden… (I figure you’re older because if you haven’t touched one in years – you have to be ancient. Around my age. 😉
@Pxx – you worry too much. If you want him, go after him. What do you have to lose? Look, if you’re older he’s figuring if he’s going to be shot down, it’ll be by women that are worth being shot down over – a woman over 35 probably isn’t in that group… If you want him, you need to go after it. If he’s been married for a while, he doesn’t have his “sea legs” yet – but he will get them fairly quickly and want to make up for all of those years when he was on a starvation diet of one woman… So go for it – or you’ll be alone wondering what happened. You have a small window of opportunity – don’t let it slip away…
But – hey, I’m just saying…
I don’t know what sort of women you get but you’ve managed to insult all the women here who are over 35 by telling them they “aren’t worth being shot down over” and all the women under that age by telling them they’re slappers. We have to take your word for it you’re successful as for the life of me I can’t see why you would be as the veiled contempt you feel for women comes across very clearly
Just saying,
What a load of absolute bollocks.
If an eighteen year old woman wants a shag there will be eighteen yr old guys queuing up round the block, and they will have the advantage of a six pack, a full head of hair and the ability to keep it up for hours at a time without chemical assistance. Why on earth would she choose granddad?
When I was eighteen the very idea of a man in his 40s or 50s would not have been appealing. My first boyfriend, when I was 17, was 26. And he seemed almost a pensioner to me. I don’t believe a word of what you say.
Ha appalling not appealing!
I know. I’m prepared to accept that there are SOME women under say 25 who like men who are say 15+ years older, but they are the tiny minority and I’ve never met any. For all the reasons you say. Anyone more than 5 years older than me was too old until I was about 30, and my friends thought they were old too, and at that age you go out with your boyfriend and your friends and their boyfriends, and nobody (including your friends and their boyfriends) wanted an old person who didn’t fit in to tag along. Nor did you value the things that they could offer (like a car say), you wanted someone to go to parties with, not someone whose idea of fun was the sort of thing your parents did. I’m not sure really why those men who don’t want women 20+ years older than them don’t think that younger women feel the same way about them, for the same reasons. Deluded I suppose.
And where do you meet old men? When I was younger you met your boyfriends through your friends, or at parties you went to with your mates, or at uni, or in the pub with your mates. You didn’t go anywhere old men were unless you were accompanying your parentys somewhere. Where are these old men going to that brings them into contact with young girls? It’s just bollocks.
Just Saying, aren’t you a catch … and such a sensible, gentle man.
If you’re having so much sex with all those young women, what are you doing here, commenting on a blog of old “worthless” women?
When I was 18 my idea of ‘experiencing life’ definitely did not involve shagging an old man! When my daughter was 18, she told me the shocking story of her friend dating an ‘older man’ – when I asked what age, she said he was 25! Older men who think that young women are gagging for them are deluding themselves. Of course there are some young women who have self-esteem issues – and there are some older men who are happy to exploit their vulnerability, and there are young women who see older men as gullible cash dispensers, but the majority of young women want to socialise with their peer group and date or have relationships with men around their own age. And what about those ‘young willing women’ who just want casual sex? The world is full of YOUNG ‘horny goats’ willing to oblige. I suspect Just Sayin gets some sort of cheap thrill from posting that he has no problem attracting lots of desperate young women – when really he is just a sexually frustrated old perv. He makes me appreciate Scott’s honesty.
but surely you thought “mmmmm. Nice. Reminds me of my dad and his friends. I don’t want a guy my own age who likes the same films, music and activities as I do. NO. What I want is someone who likes the same films, music and activities my dad does. And ok he may not have the taut muscles and concave stomach and tight little bottom of the blokes my age, but who wants that when he can chat to my mum and dad! OK it’s a slight problem that my dad in particular doesn’t like him and my friends seem irritated when he’s around and say he’s boring, and admittedly he talks too much about his work and not enough about how bad his hangover is, and he doesn’t want to come to the cinema with me to watch the Twilight films, but that’s no biggie. And I’m very lucky to have him as there are simply loads and loads of girls my age trying to steal my boyfriend”
Yes, my 26 year old bf seemed like Methuselah at the time, I was with him in spite of his age not because of it. And ultimately I had to end it because he wanted to settle down!
My parents were only in their 30s! Disgusting to me that people in their 30s might still have sex, urghh!
I suspect Just Saying is a limp willy wierdo.
@ Ms. P- nothing to do with your not gettin’ any these days this time, but:
I watched a very interesting dvd last week, I’m telling everyone I know who writes about this movie- Believe it or not, it’s actually entitled “Bad Writing” (Morris Hill Pictures/ Indie Flix, 2010.) If you’re not already familiar with this movie, it’s not really about bad writing at all- “Bad Writing” is comprised of interviews with a number of different fiction writers, poets, screenwriters and playwrights, ranging from some very famous writers to people who are presently attempting to begin a career as a writer, and whom are still relatively unknown- The narrator, Vernon Lott interviews nearly 20 writers, about their views on the creative process, and most of them explain how it took them several years of experimenting with different voices and with different writing styles before they arrived at the style that they’re comfortable with, and the styles that they’ve written the books that have made them famous- There are a few scenes in this movie in which some very famous writers read some of the first pieces that they ever wrote about anything, many years before they became famous, and hence the title….
Highly recommended this movie to anyone who writes…. It’ll at least make you laugh a few times, I promise…
muriel, yes, maybe do the hair but just be yourself and give yourself a chance ( you won’t do that by keeping on the instant ) most men like shy, i know in my case i’d rather carry a conversation initially that be overwhelmed by an overconfident woman.
and , just saying, what are you , 12?
i was ust about to post how brilliant and supportive EVERYONE on here had been when i got to your post.
ah well
good luck Pl and Mu
hope it all goes well
oh and rosie?
( going by your posts on here ) you are too nice a person to be on your own, get yourself out there,make some man happy he found you .
Drifting through the mesopelagic zone here ….
: (
Cut down on the beer and strange smoking substances then.
😆
Leave him alone. You have no business being near him. The guy is trying to work through his marriage and you’re already plotting how to get something going with him. Can’t stand woman like you who do things under the pretence of friendship.
So what would you advise, Trace?
It is entirely possible for couples to co-exist well even with a fairly large age gap. I know several great marriages with up to a 20 year gap. In my family alone there have been a number of 50 year relationships where the man has been up to 17-18 years older and I would say that those relationships were perhaps the best I have ever observed. I also have a good female friend who is happily married to a guy 11 years younger than her – they have been together for 18 years so far.
As with everything, if people are emotionally suited and have the right social & sexual chemistry plus shared interests and values – then we should be happy for these “Mismatches”.
By and large though, many men are pathetic visually stimulated creatures who are now fed a daily dose of Internet porn that drives them into a frenzy of inappropriately directed lust. The girls in porn are, I believe, 19-22 years old on average. This creates a lot of problems. A frustrated 51 year old man with a taste for 19 year olds in his (sexual) mind’s eye is a cause for concern. I try not to look at this stuff as it creates a kind of visceral sexual dissatisfaction that can only lead to trouble and misery.
Having said that, there are, I can assure you a very large number of younger women out there (by which I mean 20-35) who are fixated on “Lifestyle Porn” images and want a well-groomed older ‘magazine man’ with a black credit card, Porsche and lifestyle/power to match. Just pop over to Miami and watch the circus. In my industry I see the havoc all this causes and sadly, it is all too common. As long as a minority of younger girls fall to the ‘charms’ of the aging pick up artists, men will delude themselves and act accordingly, throwing away more appropriate long term relationships along the way. Only last week I was talking to a stunningly beautiful and intelligent 40 year old lady who was seriously thinking about entering a relationship with a 75 year old property developer. He had money and some charm and intelligence and a decent hair transplant but, still …Eek.
Great, so we plankton are fucked unless we’re willing to accept an old codger – and from where I’m standing 67/68 is an old codger. Tell us something we don’t know!
No – you don’t have to accept an old codger. I just wanted to make the point that porn is influencing male sexual expectations and deluding males about their appropriate potential partners. Actually, I am sure that there are plenty of men who are interested in women 15 years their senior, at least physically.
Older men watching pornography depicting young women: it’s interesting stuff this, James. When I first started opening my mind to the possibility of younger men, it was because in the actual situations I found myself in, I no longer fancied the men of my own age who were available to me. I was sure it was perfectly possible to fancy someone my own age and sometimes, indeed, I did encounter such a man; but for one reason or another – invariably because he was already partnered – that man was not available. Of course, I would have always acknowledged that younger men were attractive, but they just weren’t on my radar as possible sexual partners. I didn’t give young men much thought – I was not, in that important sense, attracted.
Now I’ve started dating younger men, something has happened that has caught me by surprise. I simply no longer look at men my own age. They just don’t register any more. They have become, in that often heard complaint of middle-aged women, invisible. I’ve only really become aware of it in the last few months or so – and I remain surprised and baffled by it. Somehow the colonising of my sexual imagination by younger men seems to have killed my interest in older men altogether, even if, objectively speaking, they are attractive. They have fallen off my radar. It has given me a keen insight I feel into the psychology of many middle-aged men who are encouraged by our culture to see young women both as objects of desire and as potentially available to them. At the same time it has also made me realise the extent to which these things are plastic, malleable, variable: that people can come on and off our radar depending on context and culture and psychological commitment. (An observation I suppose that you would agree with, James, in your active choice not to watch this kind of pornography).
As for porn itself, I make one final observation – and that is that there are mulitple types of porn. Porn, unlike the rest of mainstream culture, does not uphold one single ideal – or, at least, does not have as its object of interest only the young and beautiful. If anything my reading of porn is that there’s a demotion of the centrality of this ideal – albeit often in ways that are, in their turn, troubling.
Great post, Zoe. Very interesting stuff!
“Actually, I am sure that there are plenty of men who are interested in women 15 years their senior, at least physically.”
I’ve been knocking around a fair while now and, from what I’ve seen and experienced, I’d have to disagree. If that were the reality, P wouldn’t have had any reason to start a blog about planktonhood in the first place.
James B is right, Rosie. It’s often the older women who are closed to it, not the younger men. It’s no coincidence that P’s actual romantic and sexual skirmishes have both been with younger men.
i think there is a danger in generalising from the particular ie assuming that because someone doesn’t meet any men that are interested in them when they are say over 40, therefore no men are interested in any woman over 40. Similarly putting it down to being over 40 when it could be for all kinds of reasons.
Rosie- I’m 41 now. I would gladly date a woman who is 21, or a woman who is 71 years young if her personality seems to be interesting enough….
The most recent woman who was available to me, and who actually seemed to be interested in me- let’s just call her “autumn, 2012” for privacy purposes- I don’t remember her age, but let’s just say that that the elevator got stuck before reaching the top floor with her- No more nutcases, I’m not in the mood for any more nutcases in my life at the moment…. If she’s more “out there” than me, then she’s too “out there” for me….
Scott
I wonder about you. You’re always saying how desperate you are for a woman, yet when one does present herself you run for the hills. Perhaps a real life woman would be too much trouble and would interfere with your DVD watching, beer drinking and Internet commenting lifestyle? Perhaps planktonhood is your comfort zone (even if it is slightly uncomfortable at times)?
Muriel- I said that I’m desperate to meet an INTERESTING woman- I could easily use Just Saying’s strategy, I could go out to one of the bars here tonight, and within a few hours I could meet a woman, approximately half my age, zero (0) personality whatsoever, completely boring as all hell, who would be in total awe of my for absolutely zero (0) reason whatsoever, except that I’m in my early 40’s, I appear at first to be relatively stable, calm, well dressed, sometimes well- mannered and financially stable- And then we could begin a relationship which would last approximately 3 to 4 days….
In the case of the woman whom I encountered last autumn, I misinterpreted “got a few screws loose” with “eccentric, and hence, potentially quite fascinating…” Fortunately, I noticed that about her before I attempted to touch any part of her body, aside from shaking her hand when we first met-
Totally in awe of your what, Scott? There seems to be a word missing there & my imagination is running riot…
Like I said, it’s not been my experience. I’m not ‘closed’ to the idea of meeting a younger (within reason) man, they’re just not interested – were I to meet any, which I don’t. You’ve mentioned internet dating, Zoe, so I’m guessing that’s how you find these men but how would you meet them in ‘real life’ or if you were looking for something more permanent than a series of dates and short term lovers? Of course some men date older women but most of them don’t stick around, SYT being a case in point.
@Rosie. Well, first, James B, as indicated by his qualification, was talking primarily about physical attraction. And I wholeheartedly agree with that. In my experience it’s much more likely that an older woman will be able to attract a younger man physically than an older man will be able to attract a younger woman physically.
Yes, internet dating. I am a fan of internet dating – it has huge advantages in my view, so I don’t spend a lot of time thinking about how I would meet someone in “real life”. That doesn’t strike me as a problem. However, if you’re not into internet dating – and perhaps you’re not, Rosie – that would present more of a challenge – but so it does in meeting an age-appropriate man! I will say, though, that once your radar is reconfigured, you send out and pick up on signals that would previously have gone unnoticed. Right now there is someone at my gym that I am attracted to and I know is attracted to me. I know the moment that this attraction was established and I know how it has been reinforced over time. I also know that I would not have known any of this had I not started dating younger men and been aware, open and prepared to acknowledge this kind of attraction. (He’s younger, quite a bit I think). So, yes, in the “real world” it does happen. Unfortunately, like Muriel’s cafe guy, making the transition from attraction to actual dating in the “real world” is excruciating. Like Muriel I am pretty rubbish at it – and will actively avoid being in the same work out space as him. This is why I like the internet 🙂
As for very long term relationships. Yes, there is an issue here. But it’s not an issue for me, as I see this quest for a long term relationship so prevalent on these pages as a source of misery. I want my relationships to last as long as they’re good. I don’t expect that to be forever. I would not expect a much younger man to be with me for the long term. For one thing, it would not be fair. But I don’t think it’s fair the other way either – setting a woman up as a nurse maid. I know some women go for it – and often it’s a different kind of deal – he’s well off and they can still have children. But even then it’s not the norm
You said a couple of posts back Rosie “I passed up so many chances when I was younger (I scrubbed up quite well)…”. If you scrubbed up well in the past, I’m sure you’re more than presentable still. Please don’t let another ten years pass before you recognise that! x
James,
I don’t disagree with anything you say. Age gap relationships can work. However, if your comment was in response to just sayings comment and the replies, he was not talking about relationships, he was talking about casual sex, quite different.
Sometimes in an age gap relationship there is a trade off between the mans lesser attractiveness and virility, and his higher financial standing and status. Women are sexual creatures too though and if they bloke doesn’t tick her boxes eventually she will be looking for someone who will. That was what happened in the only age gap (20 years older husband) marriage I know. After 10 yrs., and 3 children, she left her (millionaire) husband for a man younger than herself. He’s now remarried – to a woman his own age.
It’s not a matter of me ‘recognising’ anything, rather that men, who once were interested, simply aren’t anymore. I don’t think I’m saying anything revolutionary there, or that being overlooked and feeling invisible is something many (or most) older women haven’t experienced. I’m tall, slim and everything is still in the right place and I do get glances now and again, just that nowadays, once they’ve clocked how old I am, they invariably look away like they’ve just been stung in the face by a big angry wasp. Which makes me want to punch them, but what can you do. It just IS. If I was online dating on a site tailored to older women/younger men (or any dating site) they’d know upfront that I was no spring chicken but that’s not for me. After having done it to death I’m not going there again.
Maybe it’s my fault for wasting my precious youth and mid-youth on interesting, attractive men with commitment problems – I could barely find one that didn’t. Interestingly (actually, it’s not interesting, it’s just fucking inevitable) not one of them has ended up on his own.
And by ‘older’ I mean I’m 50. At 42 I was still able to pull (and pull younger men), which I like to think is some kind of achievement, if only to make myself feel slightly better, which it doesn’t really.
Rosie, reaching 50 can be a shock for both sexes. It is not only a large number but seems in my experience (I am a similar age) to be a modern biological milestone of sorts. Frankly, it is REALLY difficult to maintain the superficial flawlessness and firmness of youth past 50. At least you were able to do this with a degree of ease until recently.
The fact is that technology, education and exercise has allowed many of us to look a good ten years’ younger than we are. But at 50, most of us have to expect a change of sorts and adapt. It is hard (not impossible, but hard) for a female in particular to look 35 at 50 because of the media’s fascination with firm, tight skin and gym-fit toned bodies.
In the US we have lots of white teeth, fake tan, Botox, fake eyelashes, boobs on post 50 gym-bunnies who look good – but what an effort these people have to go through. I guess they have no time for reading or living really. If one wants to play the dating game aiming for younger partners, then both men and women have to put great, great effort in. But it is really possible, if that’s one’s bag and one has the money and the time.
As a man, I really do often meet women (and men) who have adapted their physical images well in their fifties, without surgery. The pressure on women to look as if they are 29 forever is quite inexcusable. But the pressure is real, sadly. If one wants to look ‘sexy’ over 50 – the effort for most of us (male and female) is considerable and unrelenting. Bah. But there it is …it is possible though, with work.
Some people spend ages in the gym and have old faces and young bodies, others seem the other way around. It’s a shallow thing to to say (I apologise) but it’s a case of balancing one’s look if one wants to stay sexually attractive to strangers – as all new suitors probably are. I would advise asking one’s friends about ideas.
What a pity this emphasis is on physical appearance is though. I have had loads of clients going through this dilemma over the years but on the positive side, I have seen many transformations, both emotional and physical.
Oh and Ms P – ring that man up for a drink, will you! At least to make him giggle a bit. If there is one thing that is surely certain, is that you are probably very funny indeed in person, judging by your wit on these pages.
Eeuw James, what a revolting picture you paint – faces, bodies, Botox, gym and surgery. Nothing but flesh. Whatever happened to just liking someone, having a laugh etc?
Also, who are your clients? Are you a plastic surgeon?
Thank you, James. I haven’t rung him (he’s probably slept with a battalion of women by now), but I have my male bf working on it. He is planning to bring us together in September when he (my bf) returns from abroad. Way too late of course but, hey… Pxx
Either that or a shrink. In Palm Beach, ie another planet.
Well it sounds fucking horrible. I’d rather be here amongst the short, pasty, lumpy, snaggle-toothed, tastelessly garbed, human beings, than the narcissistic fembots described.
If that’s what it takes (which it isn’t) then it isn’t worth it, I am just not that desperate.
The simple fact is that too many people are focused on looks. I think a whole stratum of society exists of people that are obsessed with physical appearance first before they consider someone as a potential partner. It may even be a slight majority. I think we should all make an effort to some extent. My point was that if you want to attract people merely by your physical appearance, then as we become older, the effort becomes all-consuming. Giving up totally however, which I also see a lot of, is not really a good idea either.
All I meant to say was that if you want to attract younger men – with effort this is really possible. Is it worthwhile though? Probably not. There’s a temporary thrill, validation and some great sex to be had. But relationships are about people not looks.
As to your question Muriel, I am a clinical psychiatrist (originally British) working in the US. I agree – “Whatever happened to just liking someone, having a laugh etc?” – would be a great ideal. In the end, that’s all that matters. But most people need to find a partner physically attractive too before the meaningful stuff happens.
Anyway – don’t give up. It only takes ONE person to meet ….I see it all the time. One female client actually attempted suicide before she was referred to me and 2 years later she is happily married.
James, you’re contradicting yourself. You say looks are important, that men are visual creatures, that it’s difficult to look good after 50, yet you are “sure that there are plenty of men who are interested in women 15 years their senior, at least physically.”
Yes, Rosie, what I meant to say – clumsily, is that provided a female (or male) has made lots of effort to look good, that most people can attract younger people interested in a physical relationship. Personally, I don’t think that in the long run it is worth making TOO much effort as one only attracts the kind of shallow looks-oriented person that will drift off when one’s looks inevitably fade or at least change. Too much coffee. Sorry!
Well how much effort are we talking here?
I wash daily, and brush my teeth twice a day. Floss too. I buy my clothes in the finest charity shops, and cut my hair (myself) regularly. As previously mentioned, I do not practice body hair removal, primarily to save on heating bills.
Am I trying too hard, or not enough?
I last had sex with a man on June 12, 2012. Is it likely to ever happen again?
Oh and I went back to the coffee shop today. He wasn’t there. Gutted.
Here you go folks, problem solved 😀
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2403091/The-25-body-wash-claims-make-irresistible-opposite-sex.html
Steady on, folks. A lot of generalisations going on here. Sure, some men are persuadable to go out with an older woman if (and only if) she looks hot enough. These are the men James is talking about. These are not the men I am interested in. It’s about a dynamic as much as anything else. If I chat to a younger guy on the internet and am interested enough to meet him for a date, I do so without sending a photo. I like it to be about something else. Looks will be less important, not more important, to a guy who is genuinely attracted to older women.
Zoe
Do you see their photo before you meet?
Yes. I’m the shallow one. 😉
Zoe, you’re shallow? Cool !!!! Do you want my cell phone # ?
Only if you’re very good looking, Scott. In fact, in your particular case, in view of that which must be compensated for, only if you’re the best looking chap on the East Coast.
Zoe, I was in fact kidding- However, you do in fact know my real first name as well as my real last name- Feel free to google me- There are no fewer than three (3) people named Scott Benowitz in the U.S.- I’m NOT the one who is the professional chef out in Long Island, and I’m not the one who runs an industrial drilling, excavating and mining equipment company out in Montana- All other Scott Benowitz’s that you’ll find on google, bing or yahoo, etc. are in fact me….
Zoe
I have a lot of questions about this, because from other people I have heard that older women don’t get any interest with online dating. I would have thought you’d get even less if you weren’t putting up a photo, unless it is a hookup “no strings” type site? I’m not being impertinent, I am truly curious.
No, I’m afraid I don’t do “no strings”, Muriel. But it’s true that a lot of men won’t go for the no-pic pitch. I like the challenge of it – to see if I can win them over. It’s a sort of filtering device for me too: I like a man who is open-minded enough to risk it. I’m not sure I could truly recommend it as as a strategy to maximise your chances though …
Zoe,
You must be a good chatter upper!
But for men, it is much less of a risk meeting a strange woman anyway.
I’m not actually planning to sign up to any dating site anytime soon, though I must admit I am so curious about the whole thing I probably will have to at some point, if nothing else to give my female friends a good laugh.
Muriel
Why do you say that is less of a risk for a man to meet up with a strange woman ?
Are you talking of stange as in peculiar – trust me, having had my fair share of internet encounters, there are some humdingers out there – or just in the context of stranger danger ?
They are two very different types of risk…….and two entirely different definitions of “strange”, surely? 😀
Oh, Shirley ! – sorry, that should have been surely (apologies, I came over all ‘Sean Connery’ for a moment).
Clearly risks exist in anything we do on the dating scene, whether it be on the internet or , for example, an introduction at a party, A man is as equally capable of falling for a woman with nefarious intentions.That is where common sense, trust, experience and intsinct come into play.
Accepting the risk of being physicallly overcome, I would hope that the risks in most instances are borne in equal measure. As for the debate over which side of the human genome is stranger, I dont think that will ever be settled.
….”strange” in the eyes of the beholder, ladies, “strange” is a subjective term-
I would like to take this opportunity to point out that we are all blogging on a site here, which is devoted almost exclusively to people who, aside from shaking hands, have not touched any part of the body of a member of the opposite sex for a long time, it’s probably been years for some of us, and we collectively opt to refer to ourselves as being “sexual plankton”… (“plankton” is in fact the plural form of “plankton,” I looked that one up)
Do we really have the right to call anybody, anywhere “strange” anymore?
PY
The risk is not the same. A huge majority (90%) of murders are committed by men. In the UK about 2 women per week are killed by their partners, whereas the figures for men are minuscule. I am 5″2 and weigh 115lbs or so. My chances of being able to fight off any man are very poor.
Muriel
I don’t want to get into semantics but I did exclude being physically overcome and I am not going to make light of that hideous threat .
The risks I am talking of are common to both sides. Emotional or financial exploitation of a vulnerable party ; deviousness ; obsession ; cynical infection ; fraud ; revenge; greed or theft . Further damage to an unmended heart or brittle self esteem .
PY, what is ‘cynical infection’?
Minnow
Knowingly passing on an STD as some sort of sick payback
Oh my god! That’s terrible!
but how can you leave out the risk of physical harm to women?
all the other stuff, yes there is an equality of risk for both sides but its got to be a fact that women are taking a lot more of a chance in the early stages of dating someone unknown.
I’m not at all leaving out physical harm – quite the opposite . I specifically identified that as the sole significant difference (although there are an untold number of battered male partners who might argue otherwise) .
James B. Appearances do matter. I would not want a husband/wife relationship with a woman who was overweight, smoked, had a tattoo, had badly cut/unwashed/greasy hair, bad teeth (or any one of them) no matter what her personality/brain power.
Where do you draw the appearances line? Do I really want a woman so bad you would chew your arm off rather than wake her up in the morning? Or so big you burned your bum on the bedroom light getting over her in bed?
Muriel. Man on woman violence. My wife lost her cool on several occasions. The worst was the day after I confronted her about her affair. She bit me, scratched me and tore my shirt and pullover. The bite was painful. She left a cut and heavy bruising. The marks lasted for five or six months.
The internet/age differences. I have been apart from my wife for exactly five years. In that time I have had five “relationships”. One: a woman 13/14 years younger. She asked me for dinner. Knew her through fishing. Lasted eight months.
Two: a casual from time to time relationship with a woman who lives with a bloke around half the week. They have their own homes. He is ten years younger than her. She is ten years younger than me. You can take this or leave it but they do not have sex. I reached the parts other parts did not reach. It is obvious they don’t have sex. Separate bedrooms etc.
Three: an artist and four: a solicitor. Artist, eighteen years younger. Solicitor, fourteen years. Artist lovely but mad. Solicitor mad, alcoholic nymphomaniac. Both internet introductions. Artist when told she was too young responded with: her last long term boyfriend was twenty six years older. Lawyer’s Encounters picture was five years out of date and airbrushed. When we met for the first time I thought she had sent her mother.
Five, the current on/off squeeze. Ten years younger. Internet and importantly – no picture. Just took a chance because we got on well when we talked over the ‘phone. But looks were still important because she described herself as a 5 ft 7 ins, slim, natural blond – a former actress. Would I have made contact but for that description?
Conclusion? There isn’t one.
Conclusion; your picker is broken, as you are repeatedly getting involved with women who are mentally disordered, cheaters, violent, or all three. The common denominator is you; could it be that your focus on age and appearance is causing you to overlook more important issues?
Yes Muriel, I think you are right the common denominator is …me. You catch the missus out and my reward? I get bitten. Ask a woman – I’m a bloke I had it coming.
How did you know I was having problems with my picker? Did Fi tell you?
T Lover, did any of these relationships, dalliances or encounters leave you cynically infected, or just cynical?
Very droll. Wondered whether cynicism could actually be infectious so started in the Oxford Concise.
Infect v. 1. Affect a person with a disease causing orgasm. Wot? I pressed my nose against the screen. Ah – organism. That sounds more like it.
Your question? An oblique answer. I must be dumb. In the last five years I have learned more about people in general and “women” in particular than I ever knew trudging through twenty odd years of marriage. How I wish the clock would turn backwards.
Why do we judge men and women by different standards? Women post here frequently about their awful experiences with men and nobody bats an eye, but the minute a bloke does it’s all about him picking the wrong woman. Women posting here display more bitterness than the blokes, but we all let that go and pull the blokes up on it. Seems unfair to me.
I would in fact say the same to a woman. I’ve often reflected on my own relationship behaviour, which hasn’t really served me that well. (though not as bad as some, I have never been bitten!) There are a few genuine Jekyll and Hydes out there, but most people will reveal their true selves if you watch closely and aren’t determined to
ignore red flags in order to make it work at all costs. It surprises me, however, that someone who has been cheated upon would get involved with another cheater. Still there y’go, some like to live dangerously!
I agree completely with you, and you maybe have said it to women, and I do too, but I think in general there is a bias on this site towards sympathy to our own sex. I should really try to make it clear that my comments are general as it always looks (because I respond to someone else) that I’m criticising them/their view when really I’m just musing in response to something that’s been said
Hang on Muriel. Surprised I got involved with another cheater?
Zoe had a go at me for being verbose (rambling was it?) so I tried to keep it brief.
She let slip she had been to a swingers’ club. She claimed not much happened bar a demonstration of public shagging with her then boyfriend. I choked – no gagged – and haven’t seen her since. To say I was “involved” is more than a bit strong.
I meant the ten yrs younger woman with the ten yrs younger bf. I don’t see it makes any difference whether or not they’re having sex (though that is lie #1 in the cheaters handbook, have fallen for that pish myself in the dim and distant). However, tis entirely your own business how you manage your affaires, just seemed a little odd.
By the way, why “women”? Were they faux women, or pseudo women of some kind? Transvestites? Transexuals? Drag artists?
Muriel,
I tried to give an honest potted history of my five years – viewed of course through my biased eyes.
James B is not going to sit me in a chair and talk me into a relationship with a tattooed, substantially overweight smoker no matter how intellectual she might be. Appearances do matter albeit not in the sense I think James B intended.
Age differences. I only know one couple in which the man is substantially older than the woman – the one I mentioned. Plenty the other way around.
Internet dating/photographs. My longest post separation relationship has been with a woman who did not put up a picture and turned out to be, physically, the least attractive of the lot.
Cheater. I talked of “relationships”. Number one lasted around eight months. Three: one meeting at her place and a weekend at mine. Four: two meetings on neutral territory, one weekend at mine. It only takes minutes when you are under the same roof to weigh the job up doesn’t it? Were three and four “involvements”?
Five: I suppose we are in a relationship. She can drive me out of my tree. Today nothing has been right. Chip, chip, chip.
But two – I don’t know what to say. We never slept under the same roof. Were we involved? Was it just animalistic?
She, contrary to your supposition, used to claim they did have a sex life together but I am 99% sure they didn’t. They used to have separate rooms in both her place and his. All sorts of little indicators which pointed to the fact that she wanted to keep the relationship with this bloke but satisfy her sex drive with a discreet affair.
I find the moral position difficult in those circumstances. I know I shouldn’t have done it but let me ask this. Imagine the wife is pole axed by a long term illness and she can no longer have sex. The husband has the chance of a discreet affair. Does he have the affair to satisfy his sex drive (and keep the marriage going) or does he let the marriage fail because he is sexually frustrated?
I don’t know t lover, but it seems to me that having a good sex life is a nice thing but not a necessity and most of us can’t expect to have that for the rest of our lives. Old age and illness will see to that. If you’re lucky enough to be married, one partner or the other is likely to stop being able, but it doesn’t mean lying and cheating is okay. Your woman with the bf should either accept her partner as he is, and be faithful, or end the relationship and move on. Unless he’s willing to have an open relationship. In any case deserves the truth and to make his own decisions based on that.
Separate bedrooms mean nothing, if she says they were still having sex, then they probably were. The reasons people cheat aren’t really lack of sex. It’s more about ego,
fantasy, power and validation. To me it’s a sign of an insecure, narcissistic personality, that can’t cope without the ego boost of attention from the other
sex. It’s a bit extreme but http://www.survivinginfidelity.com is a interesting in seeing how betrayed people feel.
But, that’s my take on it, and I accept that situations are often more nuanced and difficult to interpret in real life. I haven’t been miss squeaky clean myself either.
P, just give him a ring and ask him for coffee! What’s that old saw: ‘you only regret what you didn’t do, not what you did’, or something like that. If you leave it until September and he’s already been snapped up (as we all know he probably will have been) you’ll be kicking yourself. To the breaches!
Quite! Pxx
Wow -a blog with one post a month. No wonder there are 230 replies -you folks must be bored!
As a man, yes, I’d always take a”taut twat” over the alternative. I mean, why wouldn’t you? The same way that women would take a good looking man over a trog. Right girls?
The other reason men,if being honest, would take a taut twat(apart from the obvious) is that a TT by definition will not have had kids.
Who in their right mind wants step kids if the alternative is none? Ungrateful,in the way, financially draining and resentful. Not really a whole lot to recommend the little darlings is there?
Cue bleating…
yawn.
Indeed.
🙂
I was just trying to say (the earlier Muriel exchange) that there are no absolutes, no black and whites as far as relationships are concerned internet dating, looks or anything else.
For me, I prefer a woman without children. Of the one to five list two have never married and four from five have not had children. I have already brought children up, want one relationship – me and the girlfriend – not me, someone else’s children and their father and his parents. This is just me. I have a friend whose marriage was childless and who worships his stepchildren.
The reverse of the coin is a problem. The girlfriend is a childless widow, devoted to her parents. Who will be devoted to her? She tries hard but the odds with her stepchildren are slim. All three live abroad. Mine are not bonding with her.
I can’t get the words out of my mouth but use of the phrase t..t t..t by a woman is not really my cup of tea and the following observation is a bit beyond the social mark. Sorry.
Ken, how much do you know about women? I think you will find that whatever the standby size in the Australian department if you turn them on they get bigger. And it is only a pleasure problem if you are what shall I say …challenged in that department yourself.
I think describing and categorising a woman by her genitals is particularly repellant when a woman does it. More so than when a man does it. That’s before you even consider that by doing so you’re implying that’s the key feature a bloke looks for in a woman – a notion that Ken is trolling with. And it repeats the unpleasant denigration (throwing a sausage up an alley etc) that some men use about women. And lastly, mine is as taut as a piano wire, so speak for yourself 😉
Ouch
Fi- Please, some of us haven’t touched one in years…. It’s painful
Fi,
Your metaphor is a piano wire?
Yep, and possibly a G string
Oh, very good, PY – and so early on a Monday morning too….
No, PY it doesn’t fit. It’s air on a G string not heir from a G string.
And watch it, that Fiona can be feisty and some.
You know, you and your puns – that double entendres routine with Jill.
Please don’t start suggesting, as we all know you are prone to do, a large pianist and the like. Fi is already crotchety. She’ll be choking on her Quavers. I’m not sure she’s tuned to your sense of humour.
The key to Fi is diplomacy. Put a lid on it and everything will be grand.
I think that you do Fi an injustice, T Lover – my guess is that she has a very robust sense of humour, and probably giggled, as did I, at PY’s jest about G strings. Probably not quite as childish a senses of humour as PY and I seem to share, but definitely able to appreciate a good-ish joke.
Jill, tell you what is nice. You have changed noticeably over the months. I think you are becoming more settled in yourself.
Sorry, I know Fi is not always feisty just wanted to work in the puns, seven I think. Looks as though they have fallen flat.
T – 🙄
Jill and PY – 😆
Oh dear – in trouble again.
Stiff as a tuning fork here…. : (
Scott,
The blog is moribund?
Just reading one of those daft round robin eMails. Quotes.
Here’s a Woody Allen which reminded me of you: Sex is like playing bridge. If you don’t have a good partner, you’d better have a good hand.
And one for me: I’m not getting married again. I’m just going to find a woman I don’t like and buy her a house.
Faux yawning I should have said instead of “bleating”
go away you tedious little man
i thought it was throwing a frankfurter up a hallway…..i havent touched a frankfurter since 2010.
Plankton,
What’s the latest?
What did you end up doing?
Are you now in the first blissful days of a new romance?!??
Please let us know..
SOOOO sorry. About to post in a few minutes. At long bleeding last… Pxx
Crumbs – what TWATS !