March 26, 2012 § 128 Comments

Before Homeland last night (completely and utterly gripping incidentally), I saw a trailer for a documentary with a seemingly rather dodgy premise, though I cannot make such pronouncements, of course, before seeing it in full.  It is to be aired on Channel 4 on 3 April and is called The Undatables.  The undatables turn out to be people with major disfigurements and unjust conditions such as Tourette’s Syndrome.  The programme charts them looking for love.

I do not have any glaring disfigurements and nor do I have Tourette’s (even if I do swear a lot, I am thankfully in control of when I do so, at least most of the time).  But I am increasingly feeling like an Undatable myself and rather wonder that the researchers didn’t miss a trick when they failed to come knocking on my door.

I reckon I have had about fifteen twinkles in the past few years (I wrote a list of several in this blog some weeks or months ago), and not one of them has materialised into a happy romance (even an unhappy one).  A friend asked me if I might be batting above my station or going for the “wrong” types.  But, no, these twinkles have been as varied as it is possible for one person in limited circumstances to come across.  There has been an admirable range of ages (by almost thirty years) and occupations and character and looks.  Right across the spectrum.  But outcome invariably the same.  Conclusion: something wrong with me.  Must be.  No other explanation, seeing as I am the only common factor in all this.  The generous-minded might put it down to luck – bad luck – and I did too for a while.  But now I am not so sure.  I must have a glaring disfigurement men don’t see till they meet me a second time and then it sends them packing.  I cannot see it but it is obvious to all the world and my friends aren’t telling me.

Unsettling thought for the day.  Undatable because of a kind of deformity like a monster in Dr Who – physical or metaphorical or both – only initially invisible to everyone else, and permanently so to me.

Only explanation.


§ 128 Responses to Undatables

  • Elle says:

    You’re right Plankton. The deformity is a number, it’s in flashing neon over your head and spells out your age to all and sundry. I have it too, and so do many other women who post here. The neon starts to flash once you hit 40 and this is what scares men off. I’m convinced of it!

    Triskaidekaphobia means fear of number 13. I think there should be a word for fear by men of females of 40 or over. Anyone else agree?

  • Lydia says:

    Why don’t you just go out with someone who isn’t quite suitable for a bit. Sometimkes it’s good for you to try, I don’t suggest my happy trio of married man, herpes man and wheelchair man but there are a lot men out there better than that but still not top notch who might do, even a bearded scientist who bird watches in his spare time and lives with mother might do for a bit. You might grow to like him.

    • Elle says:

      The bearded scientists I know personally through work tend to be extremely well-adjusted and attached since their college days. I don’t know any herpes men but I do know wheelchair men who are surrounded by women wherever they go and have no problem getting dates with very attractive women. It’s all about charisma.

    • Oh I would LOVE a bearded scientist, even if he did live with his mother – as long as he was willing to move out of there!

  • Jonathan says:

    Remember that you have been dated and loved, even if it didn’t work out. If confidentiality did not prohibit, i could introduce you to some people whom I work with who are nearing 50 whom have never had a partner. Instead, every day they hear voices telling them that they are going to hell. They would be grateful for even a twinkle…

    • Lydia says:

      Are these religious people lkt eh FLDS in the US who say you only get to heaven if you have three wives or are one of three wives? Why do they think they will go to hell unless they have a wife?

  • rosie says:

    I think the fact that you started this blog in the first place, P, and the fact that it has garnered enough followers in the same boat, is evidence enough of your ‘undateableness’ and nothing to do with you having UNCLEAN stamped on your forehead.

    Where are all the blogs from men (the sane ones, not the mentalists on Privateman) bemoaning their inability to find a partner?

  • Barry says:

    Yep . you hit it on the head P …”undateable” you is……why ?

    Because you don’t “Date” …you are on a never ending shopping trip, and carry the shopping list in full view at every Personal Shopper Event you attend .

    I know only one man who is shopping like you …and he is “Undateable” because of it. We, his friends, tell him to calm down and just behave normally in the company of the opposite sex….but he finds it impossible, and so the circle turns.

    The Women who Shop here are in the same boat ….witness those who are relaxed about the opposite sex …they do seem to get some success .

    Stop the Shop….enjoy the frisson and pleasure of those around you.

    And cheer up, it’s not terminal, just terrible.

    • fi says:

      I agree with Barry. And we don’t know how you define a twinkle. Is it being asked out on a date? Is it possible that you’re selecting unavailable men and misinterpreting signals? I had 3 men interested this weekend, 2 asked me for a date but the third hasn’t, and of course that’s the one I like but I’m still hopeful. And I’m 50. The only thing that gives me the advantage must be how I interact with them (casual and friendly) and the fact that I go where there are men (rugby club). I think I am just in the right place and I’m not looking and that means men chat. I wonder whether your problem is that you don’t meet enough new men, then when you meet one you attach significance to it that may not be feasible as they may not even be looking. If 10 percent of the new men I meet are available then I’m still meeting 3 or 4 every month whereas you meet many less than that. The other thing that works for me is I always go out with male friends not female ones, and then we go to places where there are lots of men (eg rugby club) and I get introduced to all their friends. Its just a numbers thing. Nothing to stop anyone else here doing the same thing, as I’ve said loads of times before.

      • The Plankton says:

        Thanks, fi. Though I swear I am always casual and friendly. As I say, shoulda been a bitch! xx

      • Lydia says:

        I would endorse the numbers thing. I don’t go out like fi but we are the same age, I am relaxed about men and dating, I date men on line, I email lots of them because it’s fun and they are lovely and interesting and I will meet some even if they may not quite be right just to see and I still enjoy it.

        Plankton was going to try internet dating. One reason I have been pretty successful at just about everything I have done in life is that I just keep trying everything again and again and again. It’s persistence and hard work and if you meet loads of men like fi or email a lot as I do on line then some will come good. It is a numbers thing.

        Being in the arts won’t help as it is packed with women. My profession isn’t not that I meet men from there. So think about where are all the man – at football, rugby, sailing can apparently be quite a good one if class matters to you. I am speaking to someone very into bridge (not that I am) and some men play that and they tend to be clever ones.
        Skiing I think I had said my second aughter and her friend didn’t buy a meal or drink over a weekend when they went to a ski resort crammed with male bankers last month not that either of them is single – so there again a numbers game, hardly any women and loads of men.

      • fi says:

        Yeah if I rarely went out anywhere, then only went out with people I already knew, then I’d never meet anyone either.

      • fi says:

        P. Completely confused why you’re saying you shoulda been a bitch. Are you saying that mine and Lydia’s success is down to us being bitches? Thought not. So how would being a bitch help? But I think the fact that you think men don’t want you because you’re not a bitch is an indication that you’ve no idea how you come across to men or why they don’t want to progress things with you, assuming that you are picking available ones in the first place. It will be something you’re doing, you just need to identify what it is and stop doing it. You need to ask male friends when they see you chatting to available men and see what they think. No point asking them if you’re ‘attractive’ since they will say yes, and being attractive may not be the problem.

      • The Plankton says:

        The very fact I would quite like to be with someone? A friend said stop wanting it and you’ll get it. Like saying to a woman who desperately wants to conceive, stop wanting it. I have a whole other life, the wanting is far from my whole existence, but a part of me would quite like to be with someone. Such an obviously human desire obviously has a stench about it on me, like rotting fish. Px

      • fiftynotout says:

        Fi….you are beginning to sound like Lydia, dear!and hanging out at the rugby club…did that when I was in my 20’s. Now? I’d rather stick pins…!

      • fi says:

        Well if none of you are prepared to change what you’re doing over and over again, that obviously isn’t working, stop moaning that you’re not getting anywhere. Let’s face it your not on your own because you’re 40, or because there aren’t any men near by, or because they only want younger women. Lydia and I have proved that wrong time and time again and somehow because we disprove your theOries we are wrong. Well I suppose I don’t want to sit in some situation I don’t like, endlessly moaning, blaming everyone else except myself and doing nothing to change it. If you’re on your own its your choice. Its you that’s keeping you on your own.

      • Lydia says:

        Someone wanting to conceive who only has sex once a month or doesn’t try IVF is not going to get pregnant. In the same way women who never meet men are not going to get a boyfriend so you need to meet a lot of men on line or through the rugby club or whatever. I agree about not trying too hard but you certainly need to keep meeting them and with an open mind.
        I’m seeing one again tomorrow although he’s not being quite how I want but I will give it chance and the wheelchair bound one is very keen although I am not sure I would really want to take that on and one I rejected at the weekend who was then a bit difficult about that has come back thinking we should try. I don’t know – he’s never had children which always puts me off. Never been married either.

    • RS says:

      Cannot believe I’m saying that I agree with Barry – even less that I’m admitting it – but so much of this is true.

  • rosie says:

    ffs Barry, do you actually read the blog?

  • EmGee says:

    The whole premise of that show is pretty crass – TV has certainly sunk to a new low. People with a disability have a hard enough time of it, with being singled out and labeled ‘undatable’ in such a public way.

    Ms P, you are obviously not undatable, you just haven’t come across the right guy yet. So far, the ones you have written about have been unsuitable, including LS. The judge is still out on Surprise Twinkle, but you are edging closer each time.

    You are particular, but with good motives, including putting your family and yourself foremost. Your criteria isn’t unrealistic, but it is stringent, and it is going to weed out most candidates.

    I just know that you’ll find ‘him’, if you haven’t already!

    • The Plankton says:

      Thank you very much, EmGee. pxx

    • Lydia says:

      I’ve been prepared to meet a few people with disabilities. I have to decide if I’ll meet the man in a wheel chair. I might when he’s back, but without expectations whereas the man going on about the large number of properties he owns I just didn’t warm to, he can walk but not quite right for me. If I didn’t have lots of work and children I suppose I would meet more of these men than I do. It’s a bit of a effort when sometimes I’m away for work have chidlren here and work in the evenings too often then also to make time to see a man.

    • fi says:

      Nope this is nonsense. No such thing as ‘him’ and thinking that he is on some sort of path that will collide if you just wait long enough. Its fairy story stuff. You can wait decades and if you aren’t out there meeting new folk and reducing your shopping list of criteria, then there’s no reason to think you’ll ever meet ‘him’

  • maria says:

    Oh P., don’t talk like that about yourself, I’m sure there’s nothing wrong with you. Men in general are stupid and only care about one thing. And they do want young beautiful women, no matter how decrepit and ugly they are, mostly to show off to their mates and boost their egos.
    I think fifteen twinkles is a pretty good number, I don’t think I was that lucky. You shouldn’t obsess over this and blame yourself; there is nothing wrong with you. If men don’t see what a lovely, decent, intelligent and I’m sure charming woman you are, it’s their loss. F*ck them all.

  • Leftatforty says:

    … and you must be my twin sister!

    • zoe says:

      Well as we all seem to be speculating shamelessly, this is my own minor speculation: I still don’t see men rejecting P. I hear about men who confess to others that the are so interested in P that they are “nervous” (Smidgen). I see men who write long considered emails that are considered sub-standard by P, and despite an indifferent response, still find their way to asking for a dinner date (Long Shot).

      What I also see is P holding tightly pre-conceived scripts about the way men who are serious and seriously interested OUGHT to behave. And when the men in her life don’t follow the script, she takes it as a rejection/backs off/writes them off. I see her terrified of declaring an interest that might not be reciprocated, even when that little push – that little acknowledgement – might well be all that is required.

      All little girls – myself included – were brought up on fairy tales, and it’s hard to let go of the notion of the prince who is willing to undergo all manner of trials to demonstrate their love for the princess – to show that he is worthy of her.

      In reality – and ever disappointingly – men are too often not like that. (Some are of course – and how we love them), But we are fools if we let that childhood script – which after all embodies all kinds of dubious ideas about men and women – control our romantic careers.

      I mean no condescension. I write this because I know this mindset from the inside. It’s grip is phenomenal. I have to prise it away each and every time. Right now the man I am seeing disappoints me with what I perceive as his failure to text and email and pursue our next meeting with sufficient interest and vigour. I raised this with him: he got very upset and said that this has been an issue in every relationship that he has ever had. Am I happy about it? No. But I am prepared – while he continues to accept my own suggestions with enthusiasm and while he continues to prove himself a joy to be with – to accept that this is his way.

      • zoe says:

        Its grip. 🙂

      • EmGee says:

        Zoe, I have to fight those urges all the time too!

        Your evaluation sounds harsh, but when you have been there, done that, and know you could easily go there again, you know it’s no laughing matter

      • RS says:

        Lots of truth here I suspect, zoe.

      • The Plankton says:

        Thank you, Zoe, for this considered comment. Food for thought indeed. Px

      • Zoe, you’ve hit the nail on the head.

        I agree with your comment especially the bit about texting etc. One of my friends is a single man and he gets totally frustrated when dating someone and they insist on multiple communications per day and immediate responses to texts. They complain if he doesn’t jump to it according to their time expectations and invariably get on his nerves.

        The other red flags are declaring undying love too soon or talking about moving in together. When they do that you cannot see him for dust. 🙂

        I think that when one is over 40 it’s essential to readjust expectations. You cannot behave as you did when you were 20 because older people behave differently – they have more experience and know what they want. Also men have the upper hand so adhering to a childhood script will just send them flying to a more easy-going woman.

      • EmGee says:

        @ Sarah Hague’s reply:
        I should talk, I dislike texting myself, mainly because it could be a useful tool for brief instant communications, but instead it’s just another device that distracts people from being in the here and now. Imagine the self restraint one would acquire if there was no form of instant communication to sooth needy insecurities.

        One thing that caused my bf to break away from me last year was an ex of his (from 10 years ago, but ‘still friends’), to start texting him 4 or 5 times a day with inane crap like, “wut r u doing” “Bot gr8t book 2day, u must read”, etc, just to keep some sort of needy contact. It freaked him out and he started feeling smothered from all sides.
        Your friend is right to run, and run fast in the other direction.

        I don’t know if P is ‘holding on to old scripts’, but there is nothing more frustrating than knowing those old scripts don’t work, but not knowing how to find, or write a new script. I do know that she has mentioned restraint in even emailing or texting LS – keeping the message brief and noncommittal (aka, “had a great time last night, thanks!”), and agonozing over whether that was too much.

        Reminds me of the old saw, “Just when I thought I knew the game, someone came along and changed the rules”

      • Lydia says:

        Yes, Zoe. I try to live with their imperfections as indeed they have to live with mine. If someone wants more or less contact than I do then I try to satisfy that elsewhere and see what develops. Of course sometimes someone is so incompatible it’s not really worth persisting but it’s usually worth having a go just in case. The person I am seeing today is a bit like that and I know exactly what he’s like and I can tread water with it for the moment and see what else turns up and see if he’s okay.

  • MissM says:

    If there is something about you dear P that makes you undatable, it is a terribly common affliction. Seems like an awful lot of women over forty are also alone against their wishes. Even Lydia and Fi who apparently have men all around them are still as single as the rest of us. On the up side you have one hell of a lot more twinkles than most, without having to resort to considering men with herpes or attending rugby club meetings, and you need only one of the twinkles to turn into your bright light.

  • Jane says:

    @Lydia, so your 2nd daughter and friend didn’t buy a drink or meal all holiday? Well there’s something for us all to aim for. For someone who goes on and endlessly on about women having their own money and not relying on men to gve them theirs, this seems a slight contradiction. Personally I am slightly appalled that getting men that you don’t know to buy you drinks and meals is held up as something to be lauded, I think it’s a bit sleazy, but then maybe that’s just me.

    • Lydia says:

      If you’re two attractive early 20s girls having a ski weekend I don’t see what’s wrong with it. It’s just how it works in that demographic. They both have boyfriends to whom they are loyal and the bankers on ski weekends who were there would have regarded it as small change. She pays her own way more generally.

      You go into a bar as a group of girls and boys come over. That’s how most people meetin that age group. It’s not what happens as we get older but certainly I would never doubt that daughter’s correct sexual politics. She is the most feminist of all the children and constantly berates any friends who betray housewife tendencies or ambitions. Living off male earnings is akin to prostitution. Indeed one reason I might find it fairly easy to find boyfriends is because unlike many women I don’t need a meal ticket, virtually always earn more than they do and don’t expect them to pay. After being fleeced by a wife on a divorce they find me a rare find in a sea of impoverished women lokoing for a man to pay pay and pay.

      The key for women is to be financially independent in good careers and I hope people encourage their daughters in those directions.

      • fiftynotout says:

        Have just come back and seen this Lydia, ok so 2 attractive girls recieve benefeits that are paid for with someone elses money (male) for the pleasure of their company….what is that then, if it is not akin to the ‘P’ work (and I am not talking about planktonhood) …sorry you are just blatantly contradicting yourself.

  • fi says:

    God. I’m leaving here. Its so bloody boring! With the exception of some interesting commentators, every bloody day its just the same. Oh I wish I had a boyfriend. Why can’t I get a boyfriend, why doesn’t anyone want me. Its everyone else’s fault except mine and my unreasonable expectations, even though my criteria are so narrow and I won’t compromise. Why oh why can’t I get a boyfriend. And rosie and missm, frustrated bitter spinsters who nObody wants and who can be surprised by that!!!!! Checking out as I’m bored by myself, saying the same things over and over again to women whose only response to the idea of changing themselves to change the outcome, is more whingeing.

    • MissM says:

      I’ve lost count as to how many times have you said you will be leaving, yet you always come back. You must just want the attention, otherwise why keep on announcing you are leaving instead of just going ahead and doing it?

    • Jane says:

      @ Fi, Bye!

    • Chris says:

      Ah, now you begin to understand British women !! That is why I have only dated foreign ladies for the last 25 years……and I met them all in the city I reside in !! I just love those slack immigration policies !! Don’t get me wrong, I love British women, warm to their sense of entitlement, laugh at the hilarity of the outrageous expectations they have of men, chortle at their somewhat inflated view of their rather limited charms. Best of all, I love it when they do their ‘ Sex in the City ‘, out with the girls bonding and getting thouroughly pissed of a Friday night. Great stuff. I could go on and on. Anyway, the fing is, ‘ave a relationship wiv one ? No thanks, don’t need to.

      • EmGee says:

        Begs the question why you are even here then, let alone expressing an opinion? Beyond, ‘it’s a free country’ and all of that vague stuff.

        Rhetorical question btw, it’s obvious why. Cold comfort that low self-esteem and feeding an insatiable sense of superiority is not gender specific, though.

      • Elle says:

        Ladies, this is the sort of mentality you’re feeding if you bicker here. Is it worth it? I think not.

        Chris, unfortunately for the newcomers some of those slack immigration policies you mention don’t give them permanent residency. That can make the locals seem very attractive if certain unscrupulous newcomers want to stay. I’m sure the women you date are lovely and have no such motives but there are devious people everywhere in the world.

    • H says:

      Fi, as a bloke who pops in here occasionally to pick up any tips, I have to say I agree with you. It’s quite interesting to follow individual’s postings to pick up their characters and for what it’s worth you sound like one of the few dateable women on here. If I could be bothered it would be interesting to do a league table just to wind up a few of the old cows 🙂 xx

  • june says:

    Well dear P as said we are all in same boat on here are we not, even me though from many comments i get, i seem to be blamed for my lack of success with men, but all these who tell me im negative, still seem to be planktons themselves. Also as i said to Elle if the light is flashing at 40 by 60 its exploding.

    Fi says she goes out with men friends, i dont have any men friends,unless you count my elderly neighbour upstairs and he goes only goes out to play snooker at a social club with men older than him and hes 70ish, cant see lot of openings there. And rugby clubs i agree, cant see lots there for mature women.

    I tried the toy boy site suggested by someone, for women wanting younger men, it seemed very london based and there seemed.little prospect of meeting someone in my area,and i am sorry before im accused of negativity, men do not seem in clined to travel miles for a partner any more than we do.

    i had an email from an old friend today who lives quite a distance from me, shes happily married to a nice man, and she said i think you think june grass is greener with a partner, you are free, not tied.many women i kn ow with partners are tied, why thats their fault, i know plenty who are not but in a happy relationship. I told my friend i didnt think grass was greener, and yes like you P i have a social life but i didnt think her and many with partners realised how ever many friends we had, we planktons spend lots of time on our own, us childless ones especially, financially living by yourself is damm expensive, sharing expenses helps pay the bills, and sometimes being alone sucks, and all the social life and friends dont make up for it.

    • fi says:

      June. You’re on your own because of your sense of entitlement, inability to compromise and your negative attitude which my bet is it pervades your entire life and will make men run away from you.

      • june says:

        You probably wont read this Fi but actually i do not have a negative attitude that pervades my entire life, i am considered by my friends to be quite a happy, well balanced person,considering i am a mature spinster with no kids, siblings, and my parents are dead. This blog provides a forum for us all to state how we feel but like Miss M said you seem very keen on making personal comments to anyone who doesent agree with you.

        When you get to my age compromise would normally mean accepting someone i have beggar all in common with, had one foot in the grave,would probably live miles away and look elderly and decrepit, well if thats compromise i and most of the women on here wouldnt want it, it sucks, but we can discuss it on here, where we cant anywhere else, its a free country and we can say what we want, we dont need you to constantly put us all down because we dont agree with you. I would imagine your attitude has put many men off you much more than mine, Ps or anyone elses.

    • MissM says:

      You have my sympathy June, the odds truly are stacked against you. I wish I had the answer for you, but if I had the answer I wouldn’t be single myself.

      • june says:

        And dear Miss M so say all of us,even Fi, i notice she runs us all down, but dont notice her having much luck either.

        By the way my friend emailed me back saying she was wrong to say what she did, if her partner goes away shes allright for a day or so and then she thinks what if permanent so she does understand.

      • MissM says:

        I think Fi must be well aware that she is having as much luck as the rest of us, despite all her extra efforts, but works hard to push that fact out of her consciousness, and therefore really hates it if anyone reminds her of that fact.

        You are so correct in your post above where you point out her lack of tolerance for anyone who disagrees with her, and It is beyond me why she comes here at all if she doesn’t enjoy our discussions. Constantly running us down is a completely unnecessary thing to do, and today’s comments were at an unprecedented level of rudeness and totally and utterly uncalled for.

    • Elle says:

      June, lots of women who are widowed later in life choose to stay single because of the freedom. Some men tell their wives to west, what friends to see, what TV to watch and what groceries to buy. They gross out on the couch drinking beer while their wife does all the housework. Sometimes she is the sole reassigned. Coupled up bliss? I don’t think so. Count your blessings even if the current situation isn’t ideal.

      • Elle says:

        west = wear
        reassigned = breadwinner

      • maria says:

        Elle, my thoughts exactly. I know lots of women like that. I’d rather be on my own for the rest of my life, thank you very much.

      • june says:

        Elle, there is no way ever i would ever have had a man like that in my life and defintely not my bed! Women who put up with that sort of crap must be mad, i think few of us on here would, possibly one of reasons we are planktons.

        But this freedom stuff gets me, freedom to do what exactly unless you have loads of money and very few single women do, certainly not retired ones, what can you do with all this freedom. Id like a job but at my age that is very unlikely, freedom to travel, i cant afford too much of that and anyway travelling alone isnt great, when at work i used to do it but cant say i ever really enjoyed it, not deep down, and now i am not at work and live alone, ive gone off idea completely, even if i could afford it. Freedom is a two edged sword, and can be lonely, there is not much enjoyment in freedom sitting on your own a lot , in your home, always eating alone etc.yes you go out, i go out, but again you cant afford to constantly do it.I agree its better than living with a slob, who does nothing and treats you like crap, but then if you have let a man treat you like that its your fault. I know lots of men who are not like that, my own father wasnt, sadly though these men all have partners and women are not perfect you know,lots of them can be awful to live with.

  • rosie says:

    Haha, I was just about to post a reply to someone else’s comment but couldn’t resist: fi, I thought Lydia was good comedy value but you’ve just bagged the gold star.

    You were looking for another blog to follow a while back so I’d suggest nastyemptyheadedlittelfishwives.wordpress.com. Probably more your scene.

    In the meantime, do let us know how it goes with the rugby player (the one you want to ring you, even though you’re not bothered about meeting anyone) or then again the septuganarian pervert who travels to South East Asia to have sex with children. Think he peeked your interest, too.


    • fi says:

      Who cares what you think. Nobody wants you because you’re you. As you know. Ttfn.

      • @fi Please abide by your stated intention to get lost. After proclaiming that intention, you continued to hang around for the better part of another hour, seemingly unable to resist a few more vicious and bitter parting shots aimed at some of the more vulnerable commenters. You’re a classic bully.

      • maria says:

        What does “Ttfn” mean?

    • MissM says:

      Fi has been noted in my mind as Lydia-Lite for a long while, but you are right Rosie, she makes Lydia look as regular as the rest of us.

    • Elle says:

      If that old man does have sex with children in the Far East he should be reported to the police and put on the sex offenders list. The police should check his computer for child pornography. Paedophiles are not dating material, they’re prison material.

    • RS says:

      rosie, I would say that your website suggestion is a little rich.

    • T Lover says:

      It’s hard to find any amusement or pleasure in reading this lot.

      I’m not very keen on nasty people.

      I wouldn’t want a relationship with someone who day in day out actively looks to pick on someone else with the single minded aim of humiliating that person on a public forum.

      You are so blinkered I wondered if you had a personality problem – whatever the reason you ought to be ashamed.

  • rosie says:

    tut, ‘piqued’, natch.

  • Elle says:

    Why have so many of you morphed into witches from the Scottish play? Thigh of rugby player, testicle of herpes man, wallet of skiing banker, cobweb of unexhumed cleavage, bumfluff of uncaressed derriere and essence of frustrated hopes all stirred up in a bubbling broth of bile. Order please ladies, unless you want privateman & co to laugh at us. You’re letting us down.

  • RS says:

    Wow. What a nasty nasty bunch you are. Where’s the rule that differing opinions aren’t allowed? I tend to be symapthetic to fi’s frustration and tend to find myself agreeing with her more than some of the rest of you, but that’s beside the point really. Gosh. The level of vitriol I see here on an escalating basis is absolutely shocking.

    If anyone ever wanted to support the (what I still hope is false) notion that women cannot be cooperative and supportive and accepting of difference with one another, these comments today are great evidence.

    I don’t chime in much, but in fi’s absence I may have to, because I happen to believe that differing opinions are important. I hope more varied voices start commenting because otherwise this is going to degenerate into a giant, boring moaning session. Fi’s obviously reached the breaking point and in snapping has become more than blunt. Which I don’t countenance, but understand.

    I cannot believe that the name calling some of you engage in is acceptable in your eyes. You’re more intelligent, but almost as horrible, as YouTube commentors… and those make me fear for the future of humanity.

    I’ll refrain from naming names, but shame shame shame.

    • MissM says:

      Anyone can offer advice, but it benefits no one to get angry when others don’t take that advice, which is what Fi seems to do. No one would get frustrated if they simply accepted that not only are people not necessarily going to be influenced by the things they say, but it really doesn’t matter if people are influenced or not anyway. So if it turns out your message is being ignored, despite how valuable you think it is, get over it and move on.

      If this blog sounds too much like a ‘moaning session’ for your liking, well the beauty of it is you no longer have to read it. Personally I’d rather that someone left once they felt bored, and before they reach such a level of frustration that all they can do is lash out and insult everyone who didn’t subscribe to their particular point of view.

      I don’t call Fi names, but I could give you a whole list of what she has thrown at me. I had the audacity to mention today that Fi is as single as the rest of us, which is but a fact, and I am told that I am a frustrated, bitter spinster that nobody wants. A happy well adjusted person would not have the need to respond like that, so I figure Fi has more issues than she is willing to admit to. But those are her problems to deal with and not mine.

      • june says:

        I am amazed Miss M she didnt call mention me in the embittered spinster comment, but then she gave me a not very complimentary blog all to myself.

        The male bloggers on here read my comment to Elle, i agree women can be cows to men, and sometimes you have to feel sorry for the men, i know people like that,,women are not perfect, we can be horrible to and i agree all this nastiness is uncalled for.

      • MissM says:

        Ignore her comments June, as I said a happy well adjusted person doesn’t feel the need to make the sort of comments Fi has let loose on us. Therefore I can only conclude she is far from as happy a person as she claims. I see it rather like when an injured pet animal bites you, their reaction is one that arrises mostly as a response to being in pain.

  • rosie says:

    “I cannot believe that the name calling some of you engage in is acceptable in your eyes.”

    You’re kidding, right? What makes me fear for humanity is people who allow themselves to be hoodwinked by those who display sociopathic tendencies.

    What was that bloke’s name again who cast a nation of millions under his spell? Oh yes… Hitler.

  • Redbookish says:

    I wonder if we’re all falling into the “Thatcher’s children” trap here? By that, I mean we’re tending to ignore broad sociological structural factors in individual’s life situations. Instead, we’re assuming that the life-situation/s in which we find ourselves (married, never married, divorced, single etc etc etc) are as much a result of broad social & economic factors, and not simply about our personal faults and strengths?

    It’s a fact that the UK population (and the US I think?) has very slightly more women than men. It’s a fact that men tend to partner down and women tend to partner up. And that’s before you factor in cultural and social conditioning which teaches women that their chief way of being is to be ‘relational’ creatures, only able to be & express themselves and their sense of self via their relationships, whereas men tend to be taught that just being themselves is quite sufficient. And so on …

    (there’s a much longer & quite well-researched argument here, but I get paid lots to write that sort of stuff so I don’t tend to do it in detail for free! )

    And on the “flouncing” — which is what a large cyber-community to which I belong would call Fi’s statements in these comments — well, the joy of the internetz is that there are many communities. If you don’t like this one, you can give it a break for a while.

    And other cyber-wisdom is that when something on the netz annoys as, as Fi seems to be really irritated — it’s generally because it’s hitting our buttons. If someone or something annoys you, it’s because it’s touching on an aspect of your own behaviour/ideas etc that you don’t like and feel is a weakness in yourself.

    Or else it’s just this: http://xkcd.com/386/

  • Redbookish says:

    >> Instead, we’re assuming that the life-situation/s in which we find ourselves (married, never married, divorced, single etc etc etc) are as much a result of broad social & economic factors, and not simply about our personal faults and strengths? <<<

    Whoops, this sentence should have read:

    Instead we might think about the possibility that the life-situation/s in which we find ourselves (married, never married, divorced, single etc etc etc) are as much a result of broad social & economic factors, as simply about our personal faults and strengths?

    I was interrupted in the middle of an edit. Stupid iPad.

    • MissM says:

      Excellent post Redbookish, I cannot fault it even with the interrupted edit, and I even got a laugh out of the link at the end. There is simply nothing more I could ask for in a post.

    • Elle says:

      i agree with that. It’s down to demographics (age, population and gender balance within a certain area) and individual life circumstances. Given different circumstances I’m sure our life stories could be very different to what they are today.

      Fi is lucky, older men go to her local rugby club. June seems to live in a remote area with little opportunity to meet men who have a youthful outlook. Lydia’s stoic attitude carries her through, but in reality she has been dealt a similar hand to the rest of us.

      Chris’s earlier comment tickled me pink, because men of a certain age have a bigger sense of entitlement than women. If they didn’t they’d be happy to give women like us a chance and we might not be here.

  • rosie says:

    I do know women who will text a bloke and ask him where he’s been and who he’s been with and what he’s been doing and for how long but then I know those who don’t, including me. Hell would freeze over first. But then I’m accused of being ‘too independent’ or ‘too much like a man’. You can’t win!

    • june says:

      Indeed Rosie, i have a friend like that, she texts her partner all while, shes so damm in secure i think she thinks he will leave if she doesent keep tabs on him, He has left a few times, and when he comes back shes better for a while, but then shes back to it again, it p……..all her friends off, but whatever we say she still does it, with a teenager its expected but a middle aged women its just silly!

  • rosie says:

    @Maria What, for saying ‘ttfn’?

    • maria says:

      Rosie, no, for the Hitler thing. By the way, what does ‘ttfn’ mean? I’m not a native speaker.

      • MissM says:

        It means “ta ta for now” apparently. Which seems apt since no matter how many times Fi does her “I’m leaving” speech she always comes back. She then gets frustrated that we don’t appear to have understood that we are for some reason obliged to take her advice, hurls a few insults at us for not having taken her advice, and does the “I’m leaving” speech again. Thus the cycle continues.

  • AMJ says:

    So… anyway,,, back to the blog…

  • T Lover says:


    It is a woman’s prerogative to change her mind.

    If Fi is down because of this constant unfair sniping – bitchy sniping which is deliberately aimed at her personally – it is not hard to understand why she decides to sling her hook and why when other (rather more balanced) commentators ask her to change her mind or support her, she comes back.

    Your reply addressed to “Maria” is not the complete picture.

    First you cannot miss an opportunity to throw rotten fruit can you? Your reply is illustration perfect. You couldn’t resist having a go. Were you a playground bully? The type that picked on other girls?

    Second, the “cycle” includes – which you have forgotten to mention – unpleasant comments aimed at Fi as a person, comments which must be very hurtful. And you have never met her. What gives you the right to do these things? To someone you have never met?

    The daily posts are very clever, not just the style and quality of the writing – but in the round. The Blogger seems to be very generous of soul. Nice. Some of the commentators are bright, intellectually if not all socially. I have enjoyed the blog, it has helped me get through a difficult time.

    But I too am getting a tad bored. I don’t find this sort of bitchy exchange interesting beyond the fact that some women are never happy unless they are being bitchy.

    And just as the Americans had interesting things to say (even if the way the message was conveyed was a little loud) their opinions were diluted by the fact they were unpleasant people.

    Get the message?

    • MissM says:

      Oddly enough I see all my posts as being perfectly reasonable, it is Fi who keeps throwing the insults at us. I do not se anything that indicates I am a bully, I do not insult Fi unless reminding her that she is no better than us is an insult, and if she wasn’t always having a go at us I wouldn’t need to remind her of that fact. Fi is in fact the one who wont tolerate us when we don’t accept her ideas, then complains that it makes her so frustrated she must leave.

      What makes you think I would bother making an unprovoked attack on anyone, I don’t know. You are right I have never met her but then she has never met me either and yet it seems perfectly okay for her to be constantly laughing and sneering at me and some of the other posters here, none of whom she has met either.

      Apparently if I tell Fi her comments seem to lack empathy I am in the wrong, but when she then calls me Cinderella’s ugly stepsister, that is perfectly okay. On todays blog my only crime before Fi exploded was to congratulate P on having so many twinkles without having to attend rugby club meetings, (something most women would prefer not to have to attend) and I’m a bitter old spinster that nobody wants. That really sounds like a balanced response to you? So how is it my comments are unpleasant and aimed at her as a person but hers are not unpleasant ones aimed at me as a person? If you can answer that I will be impressed.

      • fiftynotout says:

        @ Miss M, Well said, balanced and reasonable argument

      • MissM says:

        Thank you fiftynotout, your comment was appreciated more than you can know.

      • Twinkletoes says:

        Hear hear MissM!

        I have wondered if certain posters are actually the same person…

      • T Lover says:


        Don’t put words into my mouth.

        “Meanwhile, maybe spare a thought for June who was on the receiving end of Fi’s uncalled for attacks.”

        This is a reference by you to a comment made to June by Fi who, in turn had responded to the post “Undateables”.

        Fi was forthright. I have had similar conversations over the past two days with a friend whose marriage is splintering. Get off your arse and get it sorted. It was not “an uncalled for attack” and June was (and did) respond for herself. She did not need any assistance from you two

        Now then. In sails Rosie. Looking for an excuse to have a go. She opened with a thoroughly unpleasant comment including the suggestion that Fi read this blog: “nastyemptyheadedlittelfishwives.wordpress.com”.

        You, apparently can see something in Fi that remains a mystery to the rest of us.

        “Clearly when some people read Fi’s posts they are reading something completely different to what others read. I have to give her points for her cunning that so many people don’t even see it.”

        Could you run that past me again?

        You two look for any excuse to have a go. Thoroughly unpleasant. Who would want to be in a relationship with a woman who behaved like that?

        A few days ago Fi asked Rosie outright what was it (about Fi) that Rosie disliked so much. I read that as an attempt to clear the air.

        Response? Oh, I see now. You can see things in Fi’s comments which are invisible to us lessor mortals.

      • MissM says:

        T Lover,

        You have responded the post I wrote below, but you still haven’t responded to my post above in which I actually asked you some questions.

      • MissM says:

        If you think a comment like “get off your arse and get it sorted” would be an appropriate thing to say to someone on a website that you have never met, that would explain why you don’t find anything Fi says rude. There may be some occasion when that sort of comment may be funny but generally, it is only an okay thing to say if it is to someone you know well who understands your sense of humour. Clearly what you see as a rude comment and what I see as a rude comment are two different things.

        It is not appropriate to make completely unprovoked rude comments to people, regardless of whether or not they are prepared to respond to it.

        Don’t put words into my mouth either please, I didn’t call you a “lesser mortal”, I just observed that you don’t see what other people see in Fi’s posts. I can now see that is because we have a difference in what we see as rude or nasty comments.

        Never the less, unless you believe in mass hallucinations, if more than one person sees something you don’t see, there is still a good chance it may really be there.

      • T Lover says:


        You two have taken evry opportunity to have a personal dig.

        At least you have had the grace to pretty much admit it and put up something of an explanation, albeit a pretty thin explanation.

        Contrast your oppo. See her comment to RS at the end of this post. Sugary one minute nasty the next.

    • MissM says:

      Many thanks for your supportive post also Twinkletoes, much appreciated.

  • rosie says:

    T Lover, if you’re a ‘tad bored’ why do you too keep coming back? I think you’ll find that the internet is the natural home of ‘bitchy exchange’ and a blog would be a pretty tedious, happy clappy read if everyone agreed with each other. That kind of thing leads to holding hands and singing Kumbaya.

    What you’re suggesting is censoring people because you don’t like what they’re saying, and it doesn’t work like that. Why not find another blog where you do agree with the commentators? Or would that be too boring?

    Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, however vociferous. The problem comes when they turn nasty and start making personal attacks. That sort of thing is best left (well it’s not but you’ll never stop it) to the school playground.

    All I can say is if you think people have been ganging up on Fi then you haven’t read many of her posts. Either that or she’s paying you.

    • T Lover says:


      Thank you.

      You say:

      “I think you’ll find that the internet is the natural home of ‘bitchy exchange’”

      So you admit you are being a bitch? Easy when you are a coward and don’t have to say it face to face.

      “What you’re suggesting is censoring people because you don’t like what they’re saying”

      That’s not what I am saying and you know it full well. I am saying you are behaving like a bitch. Second it is not nice. Third I don’t like it. I could add four five and six but I don’t want to descend to your level still less the level of your sycophant.

      “Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, however vociferous. The problem comes when they turn nasty and start making personal attacks. That sort of thing is best left (well it’s not but you’ll never stop it) to the school playground.”

      So why do you make these attacks here? You are single-mindedly unpleasant. You are not a fool but you won’t let go or move on.

      “she’s paying you.”

      I will take that as your attempt at a ha ha. So ho, ho if it pleases you.

      Dwell on this: this Blogger, for whatever reason, puts a lot of effort into this blog. I am sure a lot of people enjoy it every day. Do you think that when YOU pick on someone at every opportunity it puts readers off, those who would like to comment but are frightened in case you turn on them?

      • maria says:

        T Lover, agree 100%.

      • MissM says:

        Rosie picks up on Fi’s ability to come across as decidedly snobbish, contemptuous and condescending, much sooner than even I do. It seems some people don’t even notice it at all and therefore think Fi is some sort of lovely person who is attacked without reason. Clearly when some people read Fi’s posts they are reading something completely different to what others read. I have to give her points for her cunning that so many people don’t even see it.

        Meanwhile, maybe spare a thought for June who was on the receiving end of Fi’s uncalled for attacks. June has never said a bad word about anyone ever that I can recall. How do you fit in that with your assessment of Fi as such a such a flawless person?

      • MissM says:

        Oops, one too many “such a”s in the above paragraph.

  • Summer says:

    Instead of despairing and getting down on yourself why not try to find out the truth? You don’t have to be down on yourself about it, it could be empowering. When I was single I read a dating book by a matchmaker. I believe the book is called “Getting Over Yourself”. This matchmaker had a keen sense in matchmaking and knowing what the stumbling blocks are for people. She actually coached people and advised them what they were doing wrong (not assuming you are doing something wrong but there might be something you are not aware of that is turning them off). Many people found success after that. So why not hire a professional who will coach you and give you the truth? It might be very worth it.

  • rosie says:

    @MissM, thanks for the vote of confidence. Unfortunately, I think it’s a waste of time trying to make certain people see what you do as they’d have picked up on it by now if they were ever going to.

    It’s quite telling that some of them never really join in or engage, just pop up out of the blue to slag someone off.

    • MissM says:

      Indeed Rosie, you are right if that can’t see the obvious then sometimes all one can do is just say “it’s a funny old world” and leave it at that.

    • Twinkletoes says:

      “It’s quite telling that some of them never really join in or engage, just pop up out of the blue to slag someone off.”

      Precisely what I’ve been thinking recently.

  • MissM says:

    “tot”…hah…meant “to”….quitting while I am behind.

  • RS says:

    Fi’s been blunt but up until this set of comments hadn’t engaged in any name calling as far as I can recall. No doubt someone will dredge up a comment of hers from another post and prove me wrong, but whatever. I certainly am not condoning the personal attacks she made here, in her frustration. I can agree with some of the points she’s made in the past and I suppose that overall I tend to agree more with her point of view than those of some others here.

    She has, however, been outright personally attacked and insulted a number of times (sociopath, fishwife, empty-headed – and those are just on this post). I’m not dreaming those up – anyone can see them in print upthread. At times, on this and past threads, the attacks have been viscious and primarily from one person. That’s what I’m calling out.

    How sad that the bickering supports the stereotype and causes men like Chris to rub their hands in glee.

    Anyway, I’m done commenting on this thread – a brick wall would have more give. I have men to date!! (The internet’s been great for me! A doctor, a non-bearded scientist, a musician and a writer all on the go at the moment).

    • MissM says:

      RS I could dredge up a list but I can’t be bothered, off the top of my head there is “sad sacks, Cinderella’s ugly step sisters, bonkers, witches”, and back when someone suggested how nice it would be if us posters could get together for lunch or drinks or something, Fi declared she would rather slit her wrists, not direct name calling I admit but I understand the sentiment is not a pleasant one all the same.

      Indeed I agree she has made a lot of valuable and sensible comments, I even agree with a lot of them myself. The insults however are not needed.

      • MissM says:

        PS Congrats on all your dates, I hope you have a great time. Lucky you, you do sound spoilt for choice indeed.

    • The Plankton says:

      Blimey, RS, can we ask which site? Pxx

      • RS says:

        It’s actually the dreaded fishy one!! Tons of sad and weird people there (and I really had to work on my thinking to get past the soul sucking-ness of that) but I’ve been lucky in that I’ve had contact from some gems too. None of them will be long term except as friends I don’t think but then again I am not really looking for something long term at the moment. If it happens, great. But I’m working on being self sufficient and happy on my own. And if I say that enough I might actually believe it 😉

  • rosie says:

    Yes, anyone can see them, RS. They can also see, unlike you, the unprovoked attacks the person you’re obviously so in thrall to has made in many previous posts.

    Let’s hope you’re a bit more discerning in your search for a mate.

  • fiftynotout says:

    Twinkle Toes, you say you wonder if people are coming up twice under different names- yes I am …Fiftynotout and Jane. Not because I wish to be duplicitous, but simply becasue the website has gone a bit bonkers and sometimes let’s me comment as Jane and at others decides that today I will be Fiftynotout. I have no clue why the difference

    • T Lover says:


      Perhaps it’s because you hold up your bat to the crowd when you press the “Post Comment” button.

      Alternatively are you commenting from different computers? One thinks you are Jane the other FNO.

      Just check the name in the box (below leave a reply) before pressing post comment.

  • fiftynotout says:

    Gawd!I’m slow this morning I read the bat comment 3 times before it clicked. Nope, same laptop, same everything. It does seem that whenever I get near anything remotely I.T related, things happen which have the I.T support guys scratching their heads and saying, ‘well it’s not supposed to be able to do that’ and ‘I’ve never seen that before’ Ho hum!

  • Catherine says:

    Fifteen seems like an excellent number to me. My daughter is trying to get me out there dating again but it feels like jumping through hoops. Burning ones. The last rash of Internet dating I did I didn’t like anyone and felt I had to establish distance straight away. I felt very nasty. I just can’t be bothered trying lately. There is a lot to be said for having numerous male friends and a varied social life, rather than a guy who wants to check your phone messages.

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